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By oldcarmark - 12 Years Ago
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Just wondered if there is a better year choice when considering an AOD Transmission swap?I have an opportunity to purchase a 1994-1995 AOD from a Mustang.60.000 miles.Is this a good one to purchase or is this not considered to be good choice.Are there different "control" systems such as electronic controls on different years of AOD Transmissions?Looking for some input from anyone who has done this swap.
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By oldcarmark - 12 Years Ago
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The Trans I am looking at is designated as an AODE(electronic).What does the E consist of on this transmission?
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By pegleg - 12 Years Ago
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The AODE is electronically controlled. The AOD is hydraulic. Unless you want to purchase the add on Computer the shift it, get and AOD. There are good reasons to use an E version such as adjusting the shift harshness or rpm with a computer, but that will be fairly expensive to do.
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By oldcarmark - 12 Years Ago
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Thanks! Thats why I asked.
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By Pete 55Tbird - 12 Years Ago
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Mark
Just like Frank told you the 1994 and later AOD was named AODE and needs a computer to command the shifts. The 1981 to 1993 AOD is completely controlled by the hydraulic pressure through the valve body and governer. It is a stand alone with no electronic imput to it. No computer just a throttle valve cable.
The 1987 AOD has the better oiling of the rear of the transmission ( longer life ) and the case has casting of E7xxx. The 1989 AOD elimimnated the 3/4 shift valve in the valve body and the 1991 and later the clutch drums are stamped rather than cast. 1989 AOD casting number E9xxx
,Do a Google search for Clickclick racing forum for a lot more info on the Ford AOD. Pete
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By bird55 - 12 Years Ago
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Also consider that there are two different dimensions in length of the truck version tailshaft and the pass car tailshaft section. I should know which is which but can't remember because i've used them both. Should be easy for you to check out on google though.
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By oldcarmark - 12 Years Ago
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Thanks for the info guys.Good to know these things.Now another question.There seems to be lots of C-6 Transmissions available where I live(up north in Canada).The only adapter kits I have come across are for the C-4 and AOD.Is there one for a C-6?Is anyone making a "knockoff" of the expensive AOD kit?
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By PF Arcand - 12 Years Ago
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Mark: Unfortunately there probably isn't anyone in Canada that has an AOD kit for a Y-Blk.. And from what I've read over time there isn't any cheap or easy method of installing one. The one outfit doing them that comes to mind is Bristol Services (?) in Costa Mesa Calif. Call or e mail Gary Croan @ 949-722-1122 or at garycroan@gmail.com There was another outfit that was called, I think,?, Hollywood Automotive, but I don't have any other details..
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By Grizzly - 12 Years Ago
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Mark,
I don't know why people never learn, the cheapest way is generaly the most expensive way to go. Good new components and checked second hand compoments save in the long run. I have a mate with a gm product and has an adaptor plate from a reputable company because of a very slight misalianment is continualy wearing out oil seals and probably destroying bearing etc.
I'm currently in the process of doing this conversion. I decided to go with a bendtsen adaptor because of it's complete approach and other companies sell this adaptor and reviews on the net. As discussed siverfox on click click racing has a good artical. Also http://www.transmissionadapters.com/Street%20Rod%20Builder%20Article.htm it is about the bendtsen but is a good artical about what is required.
as mentioned the later aod with the additional webbing around the bell housing and stamped with RF-E9 are the ones to get also the circular date cast mark but is only an indication as cases could be cast then used later. there is no best or ideal trans the best parts are sourced from a number of different applications and AODE parts are compatable. The 2" overdrive band comes from f100 the biggest overdrive servo from a 6 cylinder mustang and aftermarket have even better servos. there are two choices of ratios, two lengths, additional clutch plates can be added as well as other modifications.
a poorly installed AOD can burn up in only a few miles so recent recipts can be a poor indication of what condition the box is in. I would recomend visiting the seller and pulling the pan, checking for burnt residue and of a burnt smell. I would recomend a dissasembly with replacement of seals manditory. there is no way to tell if the trans has been flogged from the outside.
do your research do your math and take your time.
cheers
Warren
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By oldcarmark - 12 Years Ago
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Grizzly (11/3/2013)
Mark, I don't know why people never learn, the cheapest way is generaly the most expensive way to go. Good new components and checked second hand compoments save in the long run. I have a mate with a gm product and has an adaptor plate from a reputable company because of a very slight misalianment is continualy wearing out oil seals and probably destroying bearing etc. I'm currently in the process of doing this conversion. I decided to go with a bendtsen adaptor because of it's complete approach and other companies sell this adaptor and reviews on the net. As discussed siverfox on click click racing has a good artical. Also http://www.transmissionadapters.com/Street%20Rod%20Builder%20Article.htm it is about the bendtsen but is a good artical about what is required. as mentioned the later aod with the additional webbing around the bell housing and stamped with RF-E9 are the ones to get also the circular date cast mark but is only an indication as cases could be cast then used later. there is no best or ideal trans the best parts are sourced from a number of different applications and AODE parts are compatable. The 2" overdrive band comes from f100 the biggest overdrive servo from a 6 cylinder mustang and aftermarket have even better servos. there are two choices of ratios, two lengths, additional clutch plates can be added as well as other modifications. a poorly installed AOD can burn up in only a few miles so recent recipts can be a poor indication of what condition the box is in. I would recomend visiting the seller and pulling the pan, checking for burnt residue and of a burnt smell. I would recomend a dissasembly with replacement of seals manditory. there is no way to tell if the trans has been flogged from the outside. do your research do your math and take your time. cheers Warren
Thanks for the excellent information Warren!That's really useful reference information.
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By oldcarmark - 12 Years Ago
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How does a 93 AOD sound as far as a good choice?I think thats the last one before the electronic version.
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By miker - 12 Years Ago
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Have a look at becontrols.com . They have a ton of info on the AOD's, including upgrades for earlier units. While they are in the business of selling you elctronics, they still include links to other companies and suggestions on the older units. There is some particular info on the weaker, earlier input shafts that might be appropriate to using behind a Yblock, depending on how stout your motor is built.
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By oldcarmark - 12 Years Ago
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Just a stock motor.My Fordo needs attention so I am looking for options before deciding what to do.
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By gritsngumbo - 12 Years Ago
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http://www.transmissionadapters.com/ford_y_block.htm Herre's one source for a Y-Block/AOD adapter. Not cheap at $850, but...
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By oldcarmark - 12 Years Ago
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I was aware of that one.Seems to be the only kit available to do this installation.I am a little surprised there aren't any "knockoffs" out there.Anyone with a decent machine shop should be able to duplicate that kit using it as a pattern.
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By bird55 - 12 Years Ago
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oldcarmark (11/3/2013)
I was aware of that one.Seems to be the only kit available to do this installation.I am a little surprised there aren't any "knockoffs" out there.Anyone with a decent machine shop should be able to duplicate that kit using it as a pattern.
It has been knocked off. However The flywheel and ringear + starter you probably wouldn't get with the knock off.
As For one that has done this install and swap I can testify it wasn't exactly a breeze, because I put it in a tbird, and clearance is an issue.
I will also advise that there's not much of a way to do it cheap at least in my terms. Free or rebuilt AOD's are questionable due to rebuilds. Now, if you're a transmission builder that's a different story. A rebuild on an AOD is in the neighborhood of 1200-1500. not including converter. Their are more odds an ends to make the thing come to finish.
I'm not raining on your parade, just making sure your eyes are wide open.
At one time when I was considering a new AOD I looked at Phoenix transmission in Texas. They sell a rebuilt with several options. At first it seemed too much money, but after I look back it would have been around the same money.
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By oldcarmark - 12 Years Ago
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bird55 (11/3/2013)
oldcarmark (11/3/2013)
I was aware of that one.Seems to be the only kit available to do this installation.I am a little surprised there aren't any "knockoffs" out there.Anyone with a decent machine shop should be able to duplicate that kit using it as a pattern. It has been knocked off. However The flywheel and ringear + starter you probably wouldn't get with the knock off. As For one that has done this install and swap I can testify it wasn't exactly a breeze, because I put it in a tbird, and clearance is an issue. I will also advise that there's not much of a way to do it cheap at least in my terms. Free or rebuilt AOD's are questionable due to rebuilds. Now, if you're a transmission builder that's a different story. A rebuild on an AOD is in the neighborhood of 1200-1500. not including converter. Their are more odds an ends to make the thing come to finish. I'm not raining on your parade, just making sure your eyes are wide open. At one time when I was considering a new AOD I looked at Phoenix transmission in Texas. They sell a rebuilt with several options. At first it seemed too much money, but after I look back it would have been around the same money.
Thanks for your input.This is for my 56 Fairlane which should not have problem with floor clearance.I am asking for input so I know what I am getting into beforehand.
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By Doug T - 12 Years Ago
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As far as I know there are or have been 3 adaptors for Y's to AOD's to date; The Bendtsen, Gary Croan, and Hollywood Automotive(?). There seem to be disadvantages to all of them. The Bendtsen is a very thick plate between the engine and trany bell that adds about 2" to the length of the assy. It also includes an adaptor that is about 2" thick that bolts to the crank flange so that the flex plate ends up in the correct place. Gary Croan in California seems to weld ears on the AOD's housing so that it does not need much of an adaptor. I don't know what he does for a flexplate or starter but he seems to want to sell a whole trans from CA or modify yours. Hollywood Automotive is out of St Louis Mo. The owner brought a block and trany to Expo Ford once and it looked pretty good but he seems to have had some personal difficulties recently and does not seem to be interested in doing it again. I don't know if it ever actually ran, but I think both Gary Croan's method and the Bendtsen system have running examples.
I would also like an AOD/Y adaptor for my next project but I am not too enthusiastic about any of the above options. Another well known Y block enthusiast and I have enquired if a very well known y block suppler would fabricate adaptors and provide advice for this swap. We received a guarded but positive response. The biggest technical problem seems to be the location of the starter in the AOD vs the bell housing bolt on the Y block under the starter. These interfere and a work around is not yet developed. One thought is to rotate the trany slightly but this is not yet confirmed as feasible.
If you are interested in this adaptor for your Y powered street ride, I suggest that you respond to this thread expressing a desire for the adaptor, info on how to install it and a willingness to pay for them. I personally have great faith in the supplier but I do not have permission to say who he is and that such adaptor is forthcoming. A few positive responses will probably bring the supplier into the picture.
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By bird55 - 12 Years Ago
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OK, here's another comment.
You are getting some accurate feedback. But I would have to ask WHY you want to do this.
I already can predict some of your answers!  So, consider just rebuilding what you have or maybe adding an overdrive.
You can buy a lot of fuel and other parts for what this will involve. Plus you'll still be driving and enjoying your car.
The biggest improvement to my swap was the change in rpm at hiway speeds, which is exactly what I was after. There is about 100 lbs of weight savings too.
If you love tinkering, fabrication and working on your car, go for it.
Here's another link to an article that's a long read, but some very useful an accurate info. It involves an AOD swap in a mustang from a C4, but nonetheless still applies.
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By yalincoln - 12 Years Ago
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hi, in response to your C-6 question, yes they did make a small bell C-6 for 4 bbl clevelands that would work with a y to small block adaptor. your easiest and cheapest way to update is with a FMX.
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By Grizzly - 12 Years Ago
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Mark,
What is the ratio of your diff? there is an element of,"what are you going to do with the car",here.
The age old problem with three speed auto was the final drive. You either had gearing that was too tall and performance suffered or low gearing for performance but longetivity and fuel economy suffered. Somewhere in between was just a compromise.
The guy's with mustangs that are using the AOD are using 4.11 gears and get everything. My ute has 4.09 dana 44, it also had 16" wheels originally and the current tyre/wheel combination has been selected with this in mind.
The AOD uses the same planetary as the FMX so 1-2-3 has the same ratio. OD is 0.67 and will reduce you highway engine speed by a third.
your on a budget, right? so the expense of changing rear end ratios needs to be taken into account. also ratios and engine speed
Cheers
Warren
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By pegleg - 12 Years Ago
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I have both planets on the bench now, they're not the same. Same ratios, yes.
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By Grizzly - 12 Years Ago
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Frank,
The information that I had was the FMX and AOD shared a similar Ravigneaux planetary. There's nothing like having the two to compare. Which is the better built?
As you would be aware the fmx is a progression of the fm and fx transmissions the AOD is a progression of this and started life in 62.
cheers
WArren
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By oldcarmark - 12 Years Ago
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After doing some research I can't justify the cost of doing an AOD installation.What else can I do with the Fordomatic for a reasonable cost other than rebuild it.Is there a way to use an FMX and the stock Fordomatic to build a true 3 speed Automatic??Looking for some ideas and options.
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By oldcarmark - 12 Years Ago
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OK I found a topic relating to installing an FMX behind a Y-Block.Looks like something thats more in my budget range and doable too.Not sure how to post the link on this post.How do I do it?Would like to hear any additional input to the post I found.
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By pegleg - 12 Years Ago
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Warren, Both look pretty strong but I'm only looking at the outside now. Will do more research later. I want to see if the 4r70 gears will fit the FMX case. they are interchangeable AOD parts.
As I remember, the AOD of choice was the Mark VII's or the 91-93 Mustang GT's.
As far as the FMX is concerned, Hoosier and I both run them. John's car has gone low 11's at almost 120 mph in the quarter with the FMX. As far as I know he's had very few problems with the Transmission. They are Strong.
Your biggest issue will be finding somebody to modify the converter to fit the Y. I'd also suggest a late model Flex plate (flywheel).
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By oldcarmark - 12 Years Ago
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Reading that post(wish I could post the #) if you use a Smallblock FMX it just needs a spacer machined to fit the nose of the convertor.Or I could use the Fordo convertor and bellhousing as well as front pump.I have located an FMX off a 74 with 302 which seems to be exactly what I could use to do this swap.Does the existing starter fit either way?
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By Pete 55Tbird - 12 Years Ago
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Mark
For an article on using a FMX on a Yblock. In the yblock forever forum there is a tab for articles. Click on and scroll to FOM upgrade.
http://www.y-blocksforever.com/tech/html/fmx_upgrade.html
I finally found a 1960 FOM (COM) to get the 29 spline front pump, the new style flex plate and the torque converter for the 29 spline pump. The torque converter is still low stall speed so should be restalled. This is not a cheap conversion the FMX is not air cooled ( new cooler or radiator is required) and you should just get your FOM rebuilt and start in low and shift to drive.
Just an opinion. Pete
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By Grizzly - 12 Years Ago
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Frank,
From what I've researched the wide ratio planetery is available in the long housing AOD as well.
Mark,
I hope we haven't talked you out of an AOD. It's always better to enter a project informed. There's always the gear vendors OD. Imagine a six speed auto Y block? but that's really expensive.
Cheers
Warren
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By pegleg - 12 Years Ago
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Grizzly (11/10/2013)
Frank,
From what I've researched the wide ratio planetery is available in the long housing AOD as well.
Warren
Do you happen to know what application that was?
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By Pete 55Tbird - 12 Years Ago
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Frank
The wide ratio planetary gear set came in the AODE/W aka 4R70W. I think the first ones were the 1993 Lincoln Mk8. I believe there was only one case size. You can put the wide ratio gear set in an AOD but the valve body will not give be able to adjust to the gear ratio change. Pete
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By Grizzly - 12 Years Ago
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Frank,
Here it is http://www.baumannengineering.com/usedtrns.htm 92-93 E & F series trucks.
Cheers
Warren
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By pegleg - 12 Years Ago
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I knew about the interchangeable parts, did not know the wide ratio gearing came in a hydraulically operated AOD.
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By Grizzly - 12 Years Ago
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Frank,
I'm at a disadvantage living in Australia where AODs were never in a production cars. Ford Australia used the electronic ZF trans. To compensate I have spent considerable time researching the conversion and AODs. I'm not an expert, just a mug with a computer. I have very little it the way of people to ask about the AOD, they are not common here. I have seen reference to the wide ratio long AOD several times on the net. I could be wrong!!!
I saw the long AOD as an advantage in my conversion as the extra inch would put the rear of trans further over the cross member. Remembering that the manual is three inches longer than the AOD. The adaptor (1.5")and the long AOD(1") would give me a end of trans 1/2" shorter than standard. this would give me more choice for a driveshaft as I'm expecting that the tailshaft will end up about 54". I may need a two piece for clearance.
Here AODs come in containers as ballast in shipping containers from the states that are full of cars, parts etc. a full container is as expensive to ship as a half empty one. Cores are available but I have not been able to sorce a long AOD. I think with the charts that I have done with ratios etc that the close ratio aod is more suitable to my street driven car and my plans. Between the constant mention of wide ratio and unavailablity I was happy to find a good priced post 89 box.
If you confirm that the long AODs are in fact wide ratio and only want the planetary. I'm happy to purchase the end shaft and housing to convert the one I have. especially if you buy one reasonably soon. I'm about half way through my conversion.
Cheers
Warren
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By slick56 - 12 Years Ago
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This guy has heaps of them - Au$480 ea inc converter
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/FORD-AOD-4-speed-Auto-Trans-Suit-289-351W-302-351C-Used-Rat-Rod-Hot-Rod-/300968167559?pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item461319c887&_uhb=1
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By Grizzly - 12 Years Ago
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slick56,
Some of those are pre 89 without the lube mod or the later valve body etc. Not all AODs are equal. Besides I tried contacting this seller a few years back he could not give me a straight answer. Hmmm
cheers
Warren
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By Pete 55Tbird - 12 Years Ago
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Warren
If you want to make any AOD longer use the output shaft from a Lincoln or truck and the matching extention housing. Lincoln/Truck AOD is 1" longer due to tailshaft and Extension housing. Pete
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By Grizzly - 12 Years Ago
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Guys,
Have sorted my long trans issues thanks to epay. I hope all works out.
Mark what did you decide??
Cheers
Warren
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By pegleg - 12 Years Ago
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Warren, Don't have a case or tailshaft, I only got the planets.
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By enthusiastm - 11 Years Ago
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An adapter for Y-Block AOD is really the question now. I'm leaning towards an AOD from Performance Automatic for my daily driven street/strip 1957 Ford Fairlane 500 weighing approx 3,400 pounds with driver. I'm building a John Mummert equipped 318 Y-Block to yield over 400 HP and approximately 375 ft/lbs of torque: (http://www.eatonbalancing.com/blog/2012/09/29/not-a-race-engine-but-maybe-it-should-be/). Cam is 280 degrees advertised 228 @ .050" 107 .500", I expect to retain the stock 3.70 gears and use 27"dia. tires for street and 26" dia. tires for occasional strip. A Performance Automatic C4 would be about $1,400 less than AOD including Flat O adapter and it is 40lbs. lighter as well as 1/10th quicker E.T., but without Overdrive it will use up the engine and fuel excessively with 3.70's pushing an irritating 3,400 RPM on the freeway whereas an AOD will drop freeway RPM to a comfy 2,200 and reduce fuel consumption 15 to 30%
The Bendtsen's AOD adapter is $850 including starter and by moving the trans rearward 2" I can probably use the stock driveshaft without modification, but it's expensive and probably won't sound like a Y-Block starting up.
Gary Croan says he's still doing AOD to Y Block adaptation and invited me to call him to discuss what will work best.
Meanwhile, Summit's Performance Automatic StreetSmart AOD kit includes Converter, Lokar cable, dipstick tube and comes with a free driveshaft yoke for $2,952.05 including shipping.
I
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