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By kansas - 12 Years Ago

after I installed a/c on my 55 It will ran hot when its 95+ and in slow traffic under 25 My temp will go up to 210-215 if I turn the heater on it will drop 10 degress but that's no fun when its 95+(car nevers boil over)Im sure that the problem is air flow to the rad because of the a/c condenser I have try mounting the condenser as far away as you can from rad 3-4" but it didn't help The rad, thermostat and water pump have been replace also block was clean when it was rebuild it has a 6 blade fan and shroud I have also try a pusher fan and water wetter Here's the ? Im think about installing a remote transmission cooler kit (page 213 speedway) not on the transmission but on the heater core hoses and run the engine coolant through it .Has anyone try this and did it work?

By 312T85Bird - 12 Years Ago

No I have never tried that, but what does work is a water pump modified for higher low R.P.M. flow and Hill's Thunderbird Center has them, a little pricey but they work. Hill's is at 1-800-562-1955.

Tom

By MoonShadow - 12 Years Ago

Water wetter is just that it lowers the temperatur in water. Dosen't help antifreeze much. Its the kind of stuff you run on the track where they don't allow antifreeze. I may be wrong but I think the AC folks recommend a very small clearence between the condensor and the radiator. I would try the electric pusher fan with a temp control. Though in traffic on a hot day you are asking a lot from your coolant system. How many cores in your radiator? Adding cores can make a big difference just in volume of water being cooled. Chuck

By The Master Cylinder - 12 Years Ago

Have you tried using a high flow thermostat (Robert Shaw/Mr. Gasket) and putting a restrictor in the thermostat bypass (~1/8") to route more coolant thru the radiator?See this discussion; http://forums.y-blocksforever.com/Topic83884.aspx? Takes a little longer to warm up in the mornings but it kept my temperature down.

By The Master Cylinder - 12 Years Ago

Sorry, meant 3/16" for the restrictor size.

Also, I use Water Wetter, no antifreeze. Electric Fan, no mechanical fan. But I don't have A/C either.

By 312T85Bird - 12 Years Ago

I just heard of Water Wetter last month, what is this about anti-freeze? Do the two not mix?

Tom

By The Master Cylinder - 12 Years Ago

Tom, As far as I know there is no problem using Water Wetter with anti-freeze and in fact is supposed to improve heat transfer of anti-freeze. Personally I don't use anti-freeze because water transfers heat better than anti-freeze and it doesn't freeze in SoCal.

Water Wetter also provides corrosion protection.

By MoonShadow - 12 Years Ago

Part of the water wetter deal is lubrication and it keeps the system from corroding from the straight water. Chuck

By ian57tbird - 12 Years Ago

I run glycol in my cars but have heard a lot of good things about water wetter. It has no anti freeze capability but that doesn't matter here so the Tbird might get a change of inhibitor in the future.

By 312T85Bird - 12 Years Ago

Thanks, I have thru the years seen so many products that did not do what they were supposed to that I have learned to ask someone that has used a product.

Tom

By yblock - 12 Years Ago

OVERHEATING
have you checked top tank temp versus lower tank.the test needs to be when temp is in the 200 aria. if ther is a large diference say 10 dgrs or more this indicates rad capasity isthe problem pluged or to small,as flow is slow going threw the core. if temp isonly 3-8 dgrs rad is not restricted but aproaching its limit(needs more rows of tubes etc) 210 is not going to hurt any thing with a good cap(12-15psi). damage ocures when water boils.just some lessons we learned in heavey eq world.

By miker - 12 Years Ago

I put A/C on my 55 bird 2 years ago. It has a small pusher fan on the condenser out front, and a electric puller, with a full, well fitted shroud on the radiator. Parked and idling at 90 degrees (which is rare in Seattle), the main fan runs 90-120 seconds, shuts off for 2-3 minutes, and cycles again. This car always had a heating problem, and I'm convinced the custom shroud was the difference. Holds the upper radiator tank at 200 degrees on the infra red thermometer. The lower tank runs about 20 degrees cooler. Aluminum Be Cool radiator.

Before that, I had the factory upper shroud, with the aftermarket lower plastic shroud. I think sealing them against the core would have helped a lot, but I didn't realize that at the time.

I did not see significant differences with Red Lines water wetter, but I run antifreeze. The low tonight is forecast for 15 degrees. Unusual, but it happens.

If you search the site, you'll find a good bit of info, a lot of it by Greenbird56, on water restrictions, shrouds, and fan clutch drives. He's in Tucson, and I was there last June at 107 degrees. So he should know.

By charliemccraney - 12 Years Ago

yblock (12/7/2013)

I disagree with this. The difference should be quite substantial since the hot coolant enters one end, then passes through the core where it is cooled and then exits the other end. On mine, I don't remember the exact numbers, but the last time I checked, there was nearly a 40 degree difference from the thermostat housing to the water pump inlet. I can actually put my hand on the bottom of the core while it is idling without burning myself. I can touch the top but cannot leave it there. The area within the diameter of the fan is actually not too bad at the top or bottom.

My thought is that it is an airflow problem caused by the condenser and the radiator core may need to be larger to have more area for air flow available. Of course, this is assuming everything was in tip top shape before.

By oldcarmark - 12 Years Ago

I assume you do NOT have the upper air deflector on top of the Rad support?

By yblock - 12 Years Ago

INCORECT,if ther is a big diference it means the water is moveing slowly threw the rad,due to restriction,or to small a rad size,when the thermo opens the water pump will cavitate makeing things bad.when the thermostat is closed of corce the uper and lower tanks will balance out.but when temp is such that the thermo is open the top and lower tanks should not varry that much. also hot watter rejects heat better than cold. THe fact that toptank is so hot you cant leave your hand ther,and the botem is cold tels you the therm is open but not enough water is flowing threw the cores. now waterpump will start to cavitate as it cant gat enough water flow for its size, now engine will overheat,temp gauge will not be corect. head tempgoes threw the roof.
go to the internet andlook up engine cooling desighn. not trying to be a wiseas but wenthrew this in several repowers with of highway log trucks. it is ahard sell but cured the coolin in extreem temps

By charliemccraney - 12 Years Ago

I don't find anything with a brief search. Got any links?

So you are saying that the radiator should not cool the coolant more than 10 degrees? If it does, then it has a restriction or it is too small?
This doesn't make sense The coolant increases in temperature by about 20 degrees just by going across the top of the head, from the temperature sender to the thermostat housing. That's not taking into account the increase between the water pump and past all of the cylinders. So if the radiator removes no more than 10 degrees, then the net temperature increases by more than 10 degrees per pass of the coolant. That will lead to overheating. I experience no overheating with my 40 or so degrees between the input and output of the radiator.

By The Master Cylinder - 12 Years Ago

YBlock, I found it interesting what you were saying so to understand better I looked it up and found some more info. This is from just one site I found that explained it to me in language I could understand (Haha, I'm definitely not a thermal engineer). Thanks for the learning experience.

Heat Load to the Cooling System.

The heat load to the cooling system is related to the flow through the radiator and the temperature drop through the radiator by the following expression:

Q = M * cp *dT

Where Q is the heat load BTU/min., M is the mass flow rate of the coolant in BTU per pound per degree F, dT is the temperature drop through the radiator in degrees F, and * indicates multiplication. Since a gallon of coolant weighs about 8.3 pounds, we can replace M in the expression by 8.3 times the coolant flow in gallons per minute, or GPM. The resulting expression is as follows:

Q = 8.3 * GPM * cp * dT

Since the specific heat of the coolant is essentially constant and the coolant flow rate is constant at rated engine speed, the expression tells us something that surprises most people. That is, for a given heat load and coolant flow rate, the coolant temperature drop through the radiator will be constant, and nothing anyone can do to the design of the radiator can change that. Adding rows or fins or face area or whatever will not change the temperature drop through the radiator. As a general rule, cooling systems are designed to operate with a coolant temperature of about 190 degrees F at the radiator inlet and have about a 10 degree F temperature drop through the radiator at rated power and rated coolant flow. This will result in a bottom tank temperature of 180 degrees F.

Here's a link to that site;

http://www.arrowheadradiator.com/14_rules_for_improving_engine_cooling_system_capability_in_high-performance_automobiles.htm

By charliemccraney - 12 Years Ago

Thanks for that. That just confuses me further. In the beginning it says nothing you can do will change it but then farther down it says you can change these things which may or may not improve it. And according to this info, my engine should be quite severely overheating but it is not. There has to be more to it. I guess I'm glad I'm not the one with a cooling problem right now Smile

Did you see what cp means in that formula? I didn't find that.

By Daniel Jessup - 12 Years Ago

Interesting read on that article from Arrow. What confuses people is that they have a list of "improvement rules" as you scroll down the page, and then at the very bottom it says that Copper is a better conductor of heat, or heat transfer, than aluminum. All of these changes to an otherwise stock system would affect the overall rate of lowering the coolant's temperature as you run your engine. Otherwise, the folks who put out this information would not have listed it as such. I personally know the real world difference between a 4 row and a 2 row 56 Ford radiator. OVERALL the lowering of the coolant temp/engine temp was drastic enough that I had to put a much higher thermostat in it even in the summer. Driving it in the winter and very cold temperatures almost made the coolant temp reach 170 at cruise. The heater core barely had warm air in the plenum.

When I let the car idle, it would come back up to 190 and of course hot air through plenum. I actually had to put a piece of cardboard in front of the half of the radiator because it was cooling so well at cruise.

By yblock - 12 Years Ago

MY post is when you have a over heating condition. ,IF you have a 40dgr. diference top to botm tank and no over heating that is great,you dont have a isue. .Tho that indicates you have a system that is capable of cooling much more.
unless i misunderstood ,original post was running hot. some posts advised larger watepump,decrease bypasssize.thes will not help if rad is to small or restricted. reducing bypass will create cavitation, Cavitation is a killer as tempguage will not register acuratley,resulting in headgasket failure and cracked cylender heads.

By The Master Cylinder - 12 Years Ago

charliemccraney (12/8/2013)

Thanks for that. That just confuses me further. In the beginning it says nothing you can do will change it but then farther down it says you can change these things which may or may not improve it.

Sorry if i got a little off topic.

What I got out of the article (in the condensed version) is that you can change the OVERALL HEAT LOAD of the system by the suggested methods but you can't change the Delta Temperature across the radiator (~10°F). This is all of course in a perfect world...

Or maybe I'm misreading the article. (I already confessed I'm not a Thermal Engineer). At any rate I found it interesting and found other articles that state the same.

Just my opinion and it's worth just about how much you paid me for it… nothing.

By miker - 12 Years Ago

That's a really good article, and explains some of the money I've thrown away over the years. Thanks.

But I think we're talking about a couple different things here. The OP was cooling at idle, and under 25 MPH. That's were I always had a heat problem. Cooling was fine, although for my car about 40 was needed to get the temp to fall. Hence, my feeling it was air flow, and that I handled the fan and shroud combination poorly, for low speed operation. I've seen cars with flaps on the shroud that blow open at speed, so the shroud doesn't become a restriction at high speed.

I really don't know if any of my cars cool under high output steady state operation. No hills that long and steep, and no racetrack time.

As to my 20 degree drop from top to bottom, I'm using an inexpensive infrared. It shows good repeat readings in given locations, but changing distance and angles may be affecting it. It's not laboratory grade equipment.

By vntgtrk - 12 Years Ago

Good info here. It seems to me that a smaller water pump pulley would speed up the pump and cause increased flow. Bicycle riders can attest to that. A big chain ring and a small wheel sprocket equals a rear wheel that is spinning faster than a small chain ring and a big rear sprocket. Has anybody tried this?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/310599093957?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649
Also, is there a big difference when using the fitting above instead of a plain Jane 3/8 NPT elbow? I'm wondering if the engineers at Ford went with this to help with a potential over heat concern

By kansas - 12 Years Ago

I think I have been hi-jack All I was trying to fine out is if anyone has used a Derale transimission cooler to lower engine coolent temp a few degrees on a95+ day with a/c on
jim

By vntgtrk - 12 Years Ago

http://www.anfittingsdirect.com/product_info.php?products_id=1111

Kansas, I apologize for getting off track. Apparently what you're thinking about isn't unprecedented

By kansas - 12 Years Ago

thanks for info That's just what Im thinking about/ sense Im only needing to lower temp by 5 to 10 degrees when its 95+ and under 25 mph and a/c is on would this work better as a oil cooler or engine coolent? Derale makes a sandwich adapter that has a build in 180degree thermostatic that goes between oil filter and oil filter mount its only 1" thick Im not sure which way would work best/ or I could just turn the a/c off and listen to the wife talk about how hot it is or should I just stop worryng about 210-215 degrees

By MoonShadow - 12 Years Ago

Yes! How often do you get caught and how long do you see 215 temps. If its not happening a lot I would probably not worry about it too much. Your question started a bit of an informational debate about cooling systems that I found to be quite interesting. Adding another core has long been a way to lower temps by adding to volume of coolant. The add on cooler you listed would also do that but I'm not sure how much. I would first try a decent electric fan with a temp controller. I've seen how fast my roadster temp settles down when the fan kicks on and its quite a bit. Good fan shrouding is also a plus. Hope you get it solved. Chuck

By kansas - 12 Years Ago

high temps just about any summer sat afternoon in Kansas/We like to go to show that are a 100 miles or more from home so it is a problem/I talked to a tech at Derale this afternoon He said that if I don't have at lest a 15 degrees drop between top and bottom of rad Im flowing way to fast throw rad so Im going to try restrictive coolent flow through top of rad hose and is if that helps

By ian57tbird - 12 Years Ago

Could always turn the radio up if the wife gets too loud.

By petew - 12 Years Ago

Find yourself a water pump pulley that is a little smaller diameter than your current one. This is a trick used by car manufacturers back in the day on cars like big block Corvettes and in some a/c applications. It will speed up the water pump and the fan at the slow speeds where you are having trouble.
I put one from an early Mustang or Cougar on my 55 Tbird and it did the trick for me. I have done it on several other cars with good results as well. Just make sure the offset is the same so your belts will line up.

Pete

By MoonShadow - 12 Years Ago

Are you running a thermostat? Speeding up the fan is also a help but don't get carried away. I once had a hobby stock 74 Lincoln (long story) that we swapped pullies on. It took a couple of loses to figure out why the upper radiator hose kept blowing off. Usually on the last lap with us leading. All that hot water makes it hard to drive. Or so our driver said. I think he was just making excuses for losing. :-( Chuck

By GREENBIRD56 - 12 Years Ago

Seems to me that the "ultimate" answer has always been - more cores in the radiator. Adding a small auxiliary cooler doesn't seem to be a bad idea - so long as the radiator material will take the coolant with no ill effects. Could just plumb in another heater core to the bypass port I suppose and locate it where?

The other answer I've seen, is use of one of the "street-rod" fan forced condensers that allows relocation out of the radiator airstream.

By kansas - 12 Years Ago

I have try 2 new 180 thermostat and also have a 2700 cfm pusher on it/I guess Im have a hard time understanding how a smaller pulley on water pump is going to help me /If there is only a temp difference of 10 degrees now/ It looks like to me smaller pulley would move the coolant faster through the rad which would make for even a smaller temp drop/which to my way of thinking would make engine run hotter

By charliemccraney - 12 Years Ago

I don't really understand that article. It also says 14 rules, but stops at 9, unless I'm missing something. Because of that, I'm not taking it as fact until I see more to support it. However, it does indicate that increasing coolant flow can help. Because it gets hot only in slow traffic, an increase in pump rpm may actually help. When you're cruising, the pump is operating at a higher rpm and airflow should be better. Assuming airflow is still sufficient at 25mph, then to move more coolant through the radiator may help. If it does work, it will be the least intrusive option. That would make it worth a try if it were me.

A recent issue of Hot Rod, it may be the current issue, has an article about fixing a cooling issue. It's that section where someone has a problem and they go through the diagnoses and repair step by step.

By kansas - 12 Years Ago

smaller pulley could be the way to go but when I did my installed on my a/c I wanted a 2 belt sys The only 2 belt water pump pulley I could fine was off a large farm truck /any ideals were I could fine a smaller 2 belt pulley that would work?

By charliemccraney - 12 Years Ago

Possibly one of these:

http://www.summitracing.com/search/part-type/water-pump-pulleys/groove-quantity/2?SortBy=BestKeywordMatch&SortOrder=Ascending

And maybe in a salvage yard.

By kansas - 12 Years Ago

correct me if Im wrong but I have been told that the belt alignment will be off with the crank pulley when you try to use a chev pulley/ anybody know for sure if this work?

By charliemccraney - 12 Years Ago

I don't know. If you find one that has the right pilot and bolt pattern and is a little deeper than needed, you can shim it. The link includes Ford, GM and Mopar applications so it is a lot of potential options.

By yblock - 12 Years Ago

10dgrs diference,180 stat if temp goes to 200 not a problem. is your gauge meckanical,elect gauges ar not acurate. speeding up the pump is a risk,cavitation could be a result,esp at higher rpm.with elct gauge you will not see ups and downs . even 210 will not hurt as long as no cavitation(which creates bubles and steam pockets.

By ian57tbird - 12 Years Ago

Was surprised to read that more cores can in some cases slow the flow too much and create an insulating barrier that is counter productive. What I don't understand is why at the end it says copper conducts better than aluminium, but aluminium radiators seem to cool better, maybe it is in the design not the material. I do to some degree feel vindicated after several months ago being shot down in flames for mentioning concerns about radiator damage and cavitation problems with the practice of restricting the bye pass hose.

By petew - 12 Years Ago

Go onto ebay and type in Ford Water Pump Pulley, There are several 2 groove pulleys for small block (260,289,302) Fords at less than $30.00. You will not have any cavitation issues unless you plan on turning 7000 rpm while driving. As I said earlier this is how the factory would deal with augmenting cooling on high performance or air conditioned cars.
It's a cheap modification that just may help your cooling issues.
If you measure your current water pump pulley and the pulley at the crankshaft you can figure out where you are now regarding water pump speed . if both pulleys are the same size you are 1 to 1 meaning the crank and the water pump are turning the same speed.
if the water pump pulley is larger than the crank pulley then your water pump is under driven. And if your water pump pulley is smaller than your crank pulley than your water pump is over driven. I generally set mine up to be over driven with good results.

Pete

kansas (12/10/2013)

By GREENBIRD56 - 12 Years Ago

Ford 289/302 engines had a couple of versions of double groove pulleys that were common. Holes match up.

This one may not be available any more but used to be found on the web. The front groove matches the typical Y-block pulley and its near a 10% speed increase.

All of these cavitation theorists need to take a look at the design of the y-block pump impellors. More likely to rust off than erode from overspeed!!!!!!!

By pegleg - 12 Years Ago

not mine! they were aluminum!

By Dobie Gillis - 12 Years Ago

The Mota pulleys are available on Amazon.

By GREENBIRD56 - 12 Years Ago

For those that want to experiment without buying a shiny new pulley........... and Concours used to ask $100 for the speed increaser.

This is a 302 cid, 2 groove WP pulley with the rear groove cut off. The lower pulley on the small block Ford isn't much different than the Y-block so you are not exploring dangerous territory with the increased WP rpm.

To correct a minor amount of mis-alignment, the mounting flange on the WP can be shifted back or ahead with a puller or press.

By DryLakesRacer - 12 Years Ago

When I bought my 56 it have very few miles on it. The temp gauge drove me crazy so I started carrying my lazer pointer thermogun. First when it gauge was almost to the H mark the temp at the thermostat was 200, at the metal at the radiator top hose was 185 and the temp at the metal of the lower hose was 170. The gauge seemed to move continiously and drove me crazy. The first thing I did was buy a higher capacity radiator becaure I too want to add A/C some day. Actually saw very little change just took longer to heat up. It already had the big fan.

I came here to the site and started asking questions. Everyone was helpful especially Greenbird56. I replaced the themostat with a high flow 160 for a Mopar and put a plug in the bypass hose with only a 1/8" hole. All this helped a lot. Once the coolant temp was ALL really the same temp did the gauge calm down and stay pretty steady hovering just over 1/2 way. Temp was 170 at the thermo housing 165 at the top hose on the metal and 145 at the bottom. Green said if your going to idle around to go with the smaller pully which I haven't done.

One of the biggest change and last change was adding the metal and seal from the top of the radiator mounting and the hood. This forces almost all the air from the front of the car thru the radiator. I've kept with the 7 pound cap and some times the temp gauge will creep up and I'll see the thermostat open more or what seems more and the temp go down to 1/2 again. Moving always helps even at slow speeds. Good Luck

By kansas - 12 Years Ago

I think I have found the problem /stock pulley is 7 1/4 dia /this pulley is 6 inchs that's a lot of overdrive /does any one know if a 2 sleeve pulley from a 68-71 ford 390 will fit/ its a 7 1/4 pulley c8ae-8509-a

By Lou - 12 Years Ago

55 and 56 Fords had splash pans mounted under the front of the engine, these helped with cooling also.

By yblock - 12 Years Ago

ian57tbird (12/11/2013)

if the bypas is restricted ther will be no flow when therm is closed,whentherm open very litle water flows threw bypass

By GREENBIRD56 - 12 Years Ago

This whole thing is easily demonstrated to yourself - put a 3 foot section of hose on the discharge of the bypass at the manifold and let it flow into the radiator cap opening. Plug the port on the water pump that it ordinarily connects to. Judge for yourself what happens when the thermostat is closed - and open.

By The Master Cylinder - 12 Years Ago

ian57tbird (12/11/2013)

What I don't understand is why at the end it says copper conducts better than aluminium, but aluminium radiators seem to cool better, maybe it is in the design not the material.

I believe you are confusing copper and brass. Copper conducts heat better than aluminum and aluminum conducts better that brass. Most radiators are either brass or aluminum, not copper.

Good thing too, otherwise every idiot around would be trying to steal your radiator $$

By yblock - 12 Years Ago

GREENBIRD56 (12/12/2013)

show me a engine manufacture ,or car builder that has no bypass to acomidate flow when stat closed,close the bypass and see how quickley you crack a head,or on a fresh eng you scuff a piston. re cavitation the concern is not damagto water pump, but ariated water
creates hot spots not shown on tempgauges(as theyrequire water to function).The other reason for a bypass to the water pump is to ensure the water pump has a consistent head of water as thrm opens and closes,hear again no airiated water(cavitation) if you own a boat with a outbord motor you can se cavitation on abrupt turns,engine over speeds etce. most yblockes that have cracked a cyl head have cooling isues and cavitation. look at the 2x4 alum intakes for sale on e bay,they badley eroded due to no anty freeze and cavitation.
I wont coment again on this topic as A # of ideas seem of the cuff with no factual info. cliff

By charliemccraney - 12 Years Ago

The bypass is only restricted, not blocked and that restriction is accompanied by a few holes in the thermostat to allow more coolant to the radiator. This is a warm climate modification. The flow is not blocked off entirely. It just takes a different route.

I don't know if that is off the cuff, but several have done it and it achieved the goal.

By vntgtrk - 12 Years Ago

What size holes? Something like 3/32""? Maybe 3 or 4?

By The Master Cylinder - 12 Years Ago

(12/12/2013)

What size holes? Something like 3/32""? Maybe 3 or 4?

Drill three 3/16 holes, one on each side. You need to have a Robert Shaw/Mr. Gasket type thermostat.

Here is my previous post in this thread with a link to an old(er) discussion;

The Master Cylinder (12/7/2013)

Have you tried using a high flow thermostat (Robert Shaw/Mr. Gasket) and putting a restrictor in the thermostat bypass (~3/16") to route more coolant thru the radiator? See this discussion; http://forums.y-blocksforever.com/Topic83884.aspx? Takes a little longer to warm up in the mornings but it kept my temperature down.

By The Master Cylinder - 12 Years Ago

Link to other forum; http://forums.y-blocksforever.com/Topic83884.aspx?

kansas (12/8/2013)

I think I have been hi-jack.

Sorry if I hi-jacked you... I tend to wander... Smile

By vntgtrk - 12 Years Ago

MC thanks. I get everything from sub zero to 100+ here in the Pac NW. I've installed a 3 row aluminum radiator, a 195 Tstat and a 16" pusher fan. Is this bypass/Tstat thing something I should wait & do only if needed??

By The Master Cylinder - 12 Years Ago

vntgtrk (12/13/2013)

You may want to wait because I did notice the engine took a little longer to warm up because you have more coolant going thru the radiator before the thermostat opens and less recirculation thru the bypass. I live in SoCal where the temp doesn't fluctuate so much and never sees freezing ~45 to 80°F.

By GREENBIRD56 - 12 Years Ago

This has been discussed on here any number of times - and there are more than a few that have made these modifications and found them to their liking. I believe in performing functional tests (an engineers disease) and tried the "hose on the manifold bypass port" test as soon as a guy mentioned it to me. Thunderbirds are particularly sensitive to heating (small radiator and inefficient WP mounting) and Tucson has heat to spare. Letting that much hot water constantly bypass the radiator (even after the engine was warm) wasn't to my liking.

I know that my T-bird responded immediately to changing to the high flow thermostat - as predicted by the CASCO test you see on their site. It amounts to simply putting more water through the same radiator. Charlie has recently reported that to get a good one - the thermostat that Milodon now markets, seems to have a quality edge. I've been using the Mr. Gasket parts - and the 160º has worked well - the 180º stutters a bit. You could also drill the auxiliary passages in a large poppet style T-stat such as sold by NAPA (170º) - probably have to fit them around the edges.

The "three hole" (drilled) Robertshaw style thermostat can be seen on the Stewart waterpump site - and yes they are unfortunately, Chebbie oriented - but they are very competent. They use the drilled thermostats with a performance engine set-up to have NO bypass. When I asked about this, Ted advised using an orifice that still allowed a small free bypass passage. For the good reason of allowing any bubbles to exit the water pump cavity when the engine was stopped. Fact is - engines with the two modifications purge quite nicely when you are filling them with fresh coolant.

Yes the modification slows down the warm-up period - again, no big deal in SoCal or Arizona or points south - but noticeable in Michigan. Ford also used a small initial spark advance and ported vacuum advance on these engines - which leaves them clunking along quite retarded at idle - which also speeds warm-up. Most of us have added more initial advance - which makes for better performance of the engine in general - but the increased advance also slows warm-up. The sum of this could make an outfit pretty "cold blooded" in the extreme - but I've had some pretty nasty engine combos in cold climates - and enthusiasts live with it. I know I did - it wasn't my wife's car.

I put the smaller WP pulley on my engine after realizing that at hot idle - water flow into the top tank was (to be polite) very sluggish. My last restoration project was a '67 Cougar (289 automatic) and at idle it easily showed twice the water flow as the T-bird. The remedy was to use the 289 size upper pulley - yes it jacks up the WP revs, but it didn't hurt the Cougar and it had a higher hot idle speed in drive. What then occurred was the fan speed was too high to suit me - so I went looking for a thermostatic clutch (Hayden). They fit nicely on a T-bird - not so nicely on a sedan.

The sum of this is - that making the car behave to suit ME - required some thought and testing and "re-engineering" to get what I wanted. This sure isn't the total number of changes I've made in the name of reliability or performance - and there are more to come I'm sure. If some of the things I've tried or tested can help another of us - I'm going to share them.

By vntgtrk - 12 Years Ago

GB your info here is good to know. I signed up here to learn. And boy am I doing that! The W/P pulley I'm using is for a Chebbie big block. It's a bit smaller, haven't measured the difference yet. I'll be running two belts even though I only have an alternator to start with. Good place to keep a spare belt and it will look way cool. If any of you say you haven't done some mods just due to the cool factor, well, no I don't wanna buy a bridge.
OP have you given thought to using a smaller w/p pulley? Could be all you need

By ian57tbird - 12 Years Ago

My mistake, mostly brass with copper fins. Though brass is mostly copper it's surprising how much the alloying changes it's heat conducting.

By ian57tbird - 12 Years Ago

Out of interest I measured my pulleys this afternoon and to my surprise my fan and pump are under driven. A bit hard to measure but I came up with about 6.5 inches for bottom and 7.5 inches for pump/fan. The pump pulley is obviously not original, it is a very heavy machined steel item. I had my car out today and it is 41Celsius/106Farenheit and the temp gauge did not move but when I've been stuck in traffic in the past with those temps it would start to creep up, but has never boiled. I don't have air conditioning either. There is room for improvement but I don't have any major cooling problems It has a 3 core radiator (thought I read somewhere they were originally 2 core) and it has a 5 blade fan with large flex blades, not sure what that is off. I also put a NAPA premium 180 degree thermostat in it that seems to do the job OK, soon after getting the car I discovered it never had any thermostat at all.

Sounds like a good idea putting a thematic clutch on the fan when overdriving it. The faster the fan spins the more HP and gas it consumes.

Any ideas what cars got this fan, I read a part number, CF-D40E on one of the blades?

By Ted - 12 Years Ago

ian57tbird (12/15/2013)

.... I had my car out today and it is 41Celsius/106Farenheit ......

Where are you at that the temperature is still 106°F?

By The Horvaths - 12 Years Ago

I'm guessing that it's late Spring where he's at. Seasons change as you cross the equator.

By slick56 - 12 Years Ago

Western Australia mate, summer over here..

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By slick56 - 12 Years Ago

Aussie Jingle Bells

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJkDN5ptcWA

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By ian57tbird - 12 Years Ago

And we're just starting summer, but it is not an average day December day, getting cooler this week. Six years ago it was 113F on Xmas day and 115F the day after. We don't see too much snow at Christmas time.

By skygazer - 12 Years Ago

The Master Cylinder (12/12/2013)

Most radiators are either brass or aluminum, not copper.

Really copper tubes/fins, soldered into brass upper & lower end shells. Copper isn't as strong as aluminum, so the flattened tubes must be smaller to withstand the pressure. Aluminum gains efficiency by having more surface area per tube, but multi-row copper radiators (e.g. Optima) can pack a lot of tubes.

Here's a related link.

sorry for contributing to the hijack!