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By PF Arcand - 12 Years Ago
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Can't remember where I saw or heard it, but it was stated that early 351 Windsor exhaust valves will fit Y-Blks & have slightly oversize, 1.54" heads. Is that correct? And what defines "early" engines. Thanks.
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By slick56 - 12 Years Ago
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Yes, the C heads on my spare 292 have 1.84 and 1.54 351W valves. I didn't fit them, they were in the heads when i got the engine.
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By 62f250 - 12 Years Ago
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Mctim has a youtube video installing windsor valves. I would think that early would mean 68 or 9 those were the first years for the 351 windsors
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By PF Arcand - 12 Years Ago
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The intakes wouldn't help me as my spare heads are ECZ-G's. I haven't disassembled them yet, but the thought occurred to me that if the exhaust valves are really old, it might be an idea to replace them with the Windsor exhausts. I won't be building high rpm heads, so I don't really feel the need to spring for imported (to Canada) stainless parts.I'll look further to confirm what are "early" Windsor exhaust valves. Thanks for the replies.
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By Hoosier Hurricane - 12 Years Ago
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Paul, my book shows '69-'74 351 W valves to be the early ones. They are indeed 1.54 diameter, same stem size, and .020 shorter. I don't know about the keeper groove placement. When I put the 429 valves in my heads I had to cut new grooves closer to the valve tips.
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By 62f250 - 12 Years Ago
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I had an exhaust valve break in a 352 i did a ring and bearing rebuild on that wasnt high rpm either. It was a shame the engine really ran nice and another measly couple hundred bucks would have kept it around. The engine had the comp 268 cam with a 600 holley port matched heads and intake. With a 3.50 gear it moved the 63 country squire it was in quite well,16.7 at the 1/4 mile. Point i'm making is after that lesson i replace all the valves no question
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By PF Arcand - 12 Years Ago
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John: Thanks for the early Windsor exhaust valve manufacturing dates. I'm going to try to find Mctim's video on the subject.. Also, if I recall correctly ( thats certainly not guaranteed) a buddy of mine years ago, used 368 Lincoln exhaust valves in Y-blk heads. But I seem to recall that they were a fair amount to long, which may have resulted in valve train geometry problems..??
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By Hoosier Hurricane - 12 Years Ago
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Paul, my book (NAPA June '78) does not list any 368 valves available then, so I looked up 317/330 truck valves, they are almost .200 longer than Y valves. I seem to remember years ago some one "shortened and re-grooved" Lincoln valves for a Y according to a magazine article of the time period. Possibly Karol Miller????
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By slick56 - 12 Years Ago
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Link to Tim doing 351w valves
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=chKuDx9zroM
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By pegleg - 12 Years Ago
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Does Mummert have them?
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By PF Arcand - 12 Years Ago
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O.K: Finally found the Mctim video referring to 351 Windsor valves.. but as it goes along there is a reference to Stainless Steel swirl polished valves! I was hoping the reference was to factory exhaust valves used as is. Then searching further, found another reference to having to use different retainers & key locks & a further remark that Ford 460 valves work better!. Now I'm really confused and thinking that this route for a modest street engine is more than I want to get involved in or pay for... Thanks anyway.
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By 62f250 - 12 Years Ago
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Maybe mctim will chime in or send he an email through his site and he can shed some more light on the subject. I would think you could use a standard valve in place of stainless
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By Hoosier Hurricane - 12 Years Ago
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Am I missing something? Are replacement Y Block valves no longer available? I haven't bought any for a long time.
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By PF Arcand - 12 Years Ago
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John: I was hoping to use factory 351 exhaust valves to replace old originals & at the same time they would be slightly larger than stock valves. However, it appears they can't be used as is, without some mods to them or different retainers etc. At this time I haven't tried to buy stock Ford parts, because I didn't have enough information.
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By PF Arcand - 12 Years Ago
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John: In Mctims you tube follow up he states, "you can use 351 valves but the groove for the locks is lower & you will need to adjust that with different retainers or keys with re- located grooves." I'm not exactly sure what he means there? Key locks with relocated grooves?. Then goes on to say "460 valves work better." John, you said that 429 valves had to have the grooves re machined. So would that also apply to 460 valves? Thanks.
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By slick56 - 12 Years Ago
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Can you paste the link to the follow up YouTube video? Tia.
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By Hoosier Hurricane - 12 Years Ago
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Paul:
429 and 460 valves are the same.
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By Hoosier Hurricane - 12 Years Ago
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Paul:
I tried to edit the above post, but got an error message. I wanted to add that the 429/460 valves are 1.65" diameter.
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By PF Arcand - 12 Years Ago
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Slick: If you go to the video you sent me to. (thanks) Then just scroll down a bit you will see his brief reply.
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By slick56 - 12 Years Ago
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Thanks Paul. I think Tim was referring to the 351 Cleveland valves, in reply to the post below his from the bloke from Brazil?
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By PF Arcand - 12 Years Ago
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Slick: On re reading the question from Brazil & Mctim's response you may be correct, his answer appears to be for Cleveland valves, not the 351 Windsors I asked about. Sorry, my misread.. Unfortunately, this inquiry has gone full circle, and despite the much appreciated contributions of several people, I still don't know if early 351 Windsor, 1.54" exhaust valves, can be used without re machining their lock grooves or if they may require unspecified different than Y- Block key locks etc.?
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By slick56 - 12 Years Ago
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Hi Paul, confusion reigns!
I have just had a look at the C heads with the 1.54 exhaust and 1.84 intake valves. These have the two piece original-style retainers,
and measure approx. 1.744 from bottom of spring to top of retainer. The valve stem sits .236 above the inner dish of the retainer.
On the G heads with the standard valves and one piece retainer, the measurement is 1.991 from bottom of spring to top of retainer,
with .115 of valve stem showing above retainer.
I think the valve stems have been machined quite heavily, as the G heads are virtually worn out,
has been skimmed .050 and had a blowup at some stage, pock-marked combustion chamber in one cylinder.
Due to a shoulder op a few weeks ago i cannot operate the valve spring compressor, but a mate is supposed to be coming over tomorrow
so i will get him to pull a valve from each head to measure.
Mummert offers +.050 valve locks, i will call him tomorrow also to enquire, as i have just ordered cam, springs, retainers and locks from him,
but i will be running the C heads on the 292 (mild street).
Let you know...
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By Hoosier Hurricane - 12 Years Ago
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Slick '56:
From your measurements, it appears that the valve springs are compressed .247 more than on a stock Y Block. I would be concerned about the springs becoming coil bound at full lift. But since it has been run that way, that issue was resolved. Maybe shorter, stiffer springs than original?
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By slick56 - 12 Years Ago
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This engine wasn't run that way for long!! It has a new cross drilled(Low lift) cam, and when pulling it down i found a broken rocker shaft.
We have just pilled an exhaust valve out of each head; both heads have 1.54 valves, but the valve in the G head has two collet grooves,
the second groove approx .230" higher.
The G valve measures 5.150 oa, the C measuring 5.070 oa (well, according to my ichy micki vernier).
The workshop manual does not give valve length.
From the bottom of the valve to the top of the lower collet groove measures 4.655 on the C valve, and 4.700 on the G.
Valve with dual keeper grooves has # K9911005 stamped on stem, other valve has # 1761 on it.
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By PF Arcand - 12 Years Ago
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Slick & John: Thanks for your efforts. Still trying to get my thick head around all this info. However, I did find the OE valve length specs in my 57 manual. All valves were 5.02" long. Slick, you say that both heads you disassembled had valves that are 1.54 " diameter? If so, neither appear to be original spec. From the manual's illistration & John's observation re possible coil bind, the valve you have with the low single groove appears to be well off original specs.. At this point in time, it looks like if I want to pursue this futher, it will require removing an exhaust valve & trying to find a Ford dealer or parts outfit, that has an early (69-74) 351W exhaust valve in stock to match up too.. A side note, just checked Mummert's site & noted the Stainless steel 1.54" exhaust valves he equipes his new aluminum heads with, are 5.11" long. That's only 0.09" (9 thousands) shorter than original, am I correct?.. Hmm?
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By charliemccraney - 12 Years Ago
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.09 is 9 hundredths. That is about 3/32", quite a big difference.
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By ian57tbird - 12 Years Ago
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My mental calculating isn't what it used to be, but I think that's 90 thou longer if the original is 5.02"
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By PF Arcand - 12 Years Ago
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I stand corrected gentlemen, they're 90 thousands or 3/32" shorter.. wishful thinking on my part, led me astray. Back to where I started again!.. P.S.- my part excuse for the mistakes is that our cordless keyboard is acting up & actually quite just after this.. We went thru Microsofts procedure to get it up again, but it's acting up again even as I use it now.. So ???
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By John Mummert - 12 Years Ago
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Paul, the original Y-Block valves are commonly listed as 5.090" OAL. The keeper groove is .200" down from the end of the stem. The 351 Windsor valves have the keeper groove .390-.400" down. Most aftermarket valves have the keeper groove .250" down. I wanted to use 351W exhaust valves in the aluminum heads but all the valves made to fit the factory heads have the .400" length to be compatible with rail rockers. All the aftermarket heads for 351W's have 1.60" exhaust valves or larger. So, we had to have valves made for the new heads. They have the groove .250" down from the end.
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By PF Arcand - 12 Years Ago
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Thanks J.M. for the clarifications.. That takes the 351W exhausts idea off the board.
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