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By Rono - 12 Years Ago
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When I built my blower motor I used 3/8" aluminum tubing with Russell compression fittings from the fuel pump outlet to the carb. It doesn't leak and will never rust or dry rot, plus I like the way it looks. I have about 20' of this tubing left over and was planning on using it from the gas tank to just opposite the fuel pump, with the final connection being Gates rubber fuel line. I planned on running it on the inside of the frame rail with 3/8" insulated hose clamps along the way. One of my other friends told me not to use the aluminum tubing but rubber tubing all the way from the tank to the fuel pump. Are there issues I don't know about with the aluminum tubing?
Thanks,
Rono
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By The Horvaths - 12 Years Ago
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Ethanol and aluminum may not play well together.
Here is some fair reading on the matter:
http://www.nmma.org/assets/cabinets/Cabinet103/E20_Position_Paper.doc
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By Rono - 12 Years Ago
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Interesting article on Ethanol, but they seem to be talking about Ethanol levels in fuel that are greater than 10% potentially causing the most problems. I always use fuel additives to counteract the hydroscopic properties of Ethanol. Up here in this climate with the high humidity you have to. I guess it should be a consideration with aluminum fuel line too.
Rono
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By ian57tbird - 12 Years Ago
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Aluminium can fatigue and fracture if there is any movement. Steel or stainless is always the best.
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By lyonroad - 12 Years Ago
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So what about all the other aluminum components in the fuel delivery system; intakes, carb adaptors, all those AN connectors, carb bodies etc.
When I did my pick-up I was going to install steel gas line from the rear to the engine but the local speed shop told me to use rubber fuel line. I think I read here somewhere that if you race there is a limit on the amount of rubber line you can use.
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By Hoosier Hurricane - 12 Years Ago
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Drag racing rules state a maximum of 12 inches of rubber hose, total.
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By ian57tbird - 12 Years Ago
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That would be for good reason. It could be easily cut if something sharp got flicked up. It would be dangerous and shoddy to run rubber for the length of the car. Well that's my opinion, and as others have said, it might be worth as much as you paid for it.
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By charliemccraney - 12 Years Ago
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I've been running aluminum tubing for about 10k miles with no issues yet. It's all mounted rigidly, not much movement. The only rubber is between the chassis and engine.
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By NoShortcuts - 12 Years Ago
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Galvanic action between the dissimilar metals (tubing and frame) was what my initial thought was, Ron. Your idea of using insulated clamps should prevent that though.
I think of aluminum tubing as being easy to bend, which is a plus. Ian's mention of fatigue factor with aluminum has merit. You might consider using two insulated clamps to the frame ~ 4 inches apart near any ends where there are neoprene hose connections. The intent would be to prevent any movement or flexing of the hose from 'working' the tubing.
Your car will not be used in the winter weather. In my area, if it did see use during snow and ice time, the chemicals used on the road would be a serious consideration for causing aggressive aluminum metal corrosion.
Regards,
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By NoShortcuts - 12 Years Ago
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Regarding the ethanol, my understanding is that the EPA is 'efforting' to implement regulations that will raise the alcohol percentage from 10% to 15%.
I THINK there is some serious litigation going on over this because of claims that older vehicles absolutely will not handle the higher alcohol percentage. When I say 'older vehicles', the age of vehicles claimed to be negatively affected by upping the alcohol percentage was less than 10 years old.
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By paul2748 - 12 Years Ago
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It is best to use as little rubber fuel hose as possible. I like steel best, although aluminum is easier to bend but with the right bender it easy enough.
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By charliemccraney - 12 Years Ago
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My experience with aluminum is that it is easy to tweak for clearance, but to form anything other than a large radius bend requires a bender. Without a bender, the tubing just collapses. My experience is the same with bending steel but I'm not strong enough to even tweak it.
I used bulkhead fittings which ft into brackets which were welded to the frame. The brackets are painted so there is no direct steel to aluminum contact. Rubber bushings of some sort maybe a good idea if you have an electric pump as the fame really amplifies the sound of the pump motor.
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By Rono - 12 Years Ago
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Charlie;
The new gas tank in the coupe uses a 3/8" NPT fitting for the fuel line. My plan was to use a 3/8" adapter to a Russell 3/8 compression fitting for the aluminum tubing. Then use 3/8" hose clamps that are rubber insulated down along the inside of the frame rail stopping just opposite the fuel pump. At that end of the tubing, I would slide on a 3/8" tube nut and double flare that end, then use an Edelmann 3/8-24 inverted flare push on barbed hose fitting and connect to the tube nut. I'm using a 3/8" barbed hose fitting on the inlet to the fuel pump. There would only be about 10" or less of rubber tubing then between the fuel pump and the aluminum tubing and the rest of the tubing would be pretty secure I think.
Rono
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By pegleg - 12 Years Ago
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Charlie, Probably newer even. The fuel requirements increase with E10 and the ECU's and fuel pumps will not compensate, evidently. the Other, younger Charlie could help us here.
Hey, I have a factory OD cable, Do you need it?
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By charliemccraney - 12 Years Ago
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I'm confused. 
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By ian57tbird - 12 Years Ago
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your not alone.
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By pegleg - 12 Years Ago
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pegleg (12/19/2013)
Charlie, Probably newer even. The fuel requirements increase with E10 and the ECU's and fuel pumps will not compensate, evidently.
The question is why doesn't the newer cars accommodate E15, as well as the E10. Is it because the fuel system can't pump enough, or some other reason. I've seen several examples of newer vehicles where the 15% ethanol fuel is not recommended. Why is this?
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By Dobie Gillis - 12 Years Ago
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pegleg (12/19/2013)
pegleg (12/19/2013)
Charlie, Probably newer even. The fuel requirements increase with E10 and the ECU's and fuel pumps will not compensate, evidently. The question is why doesn't the newer cars accommodate E15, as well as the E10. Is it because the fuel system can't pump enough, or some other reason. I've seen several examples of newer vehicles where the 15% ethanol fuel is not recommended. Why is this?
There are 2 issues at work here: 1st, the materials used in fuel systems are engineered to withstand E10 except in flex fuel vehicles which can handle up to 85% ethanol. 2nd, anything over 10% ethanol will cause driveability problems and set a hard code (check engine light) on some vehicles because it causes a lean condition that the ECU can't compensate for by increasing injector duty cycle. It's beyond the limits of ECU programming. You might be able to reflash the ECU but you would still have the materials issue.
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By Ted - 12 Years Ago
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Besides the ‘safety’ factor going down significantly with the length of rubber hose being used for a fuelline, the rubber hoses have a real problem with ethanol laden fuels versus what you’ll find with aluminum tubing being used instead. In short, minimize the amount of rubber hose being used.
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By charliemccraney - 12 Years Ago
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Well, I'm a Charlie, so I'll give it shot.
The only issues I've heard of so far are incompatibility with rubber and aluminum, poor mileage and power loss of which, I have experienced none of the above in anything I own.
The fuel system is another plausible cause for concern. We know that with carbureted vehicles, when the switch from gas to alcohol is made, larger jets are required. I assume that means a larger volume of fuel also needs to be provided to the carburetor via the fuel pump. If the same holds true for ethanol, then it is possible that the injectors and fuel pump will not be able to provide enough fuel once a certain threshold is reached. Further, the 02 sensor may not provide the computer with the correct info for the alcohol content but I’m not sure if that will tend to be lean or rich.
I wold expect this to be easy to overcome in most newer vehicles. I would also suspect that most cars built in the last 10 years or so are designed for E10, so E15 really should not be a big deal for those. It is the older stuff that may have issues. That's my opinion.
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By pegleg - 12 Years Ago
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You're the Charlie I was looking for! The mileage loss should be obvious. I forget the ratios, but I remember alcohol contains about 40% less energy than Gasoline. Doing the math means that it requires 50% more fuel for the same work. Scaled back to E15 it's still substantial. I wondered, as You stated if the sensors can read the correct mixtures with Ethanol.
For fuel, I like steel lines, I can buy brake lines for a reasonable amount and the Flare fittings work very well at sealing leaks. 10 or 15% Ethanol does not seem to corrode them much. I have a hand bender so installation is not a major problem, for me.
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By ejstith - 12 Years Ago
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Airplanes has miles of aluminum lines.. Cessna & other piston airplanes have aluminum fuel lines. They don't have to deal with ethanol (yet) though...... Some of the newer stuff has aluminum with teflon inside.... Big $$$ there...
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By lyonroad - 12 Years Ago
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ejstith (12/20/2013)
Airplanes has miles of aluminum lines.. Cessna & other piston airplanes have aluminum fuel lines. They don't have to deal with ethanol (yet) though...... Some of the newer stuff has aluminum with teflon inside.... Big $$$ there...
Yikes, another thing to worry about when take a flight.
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By ejstith - 12 Years Ago
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I've got 14,000 hours in them over 40 years & never worried much about it. Never had a problem with one
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By NoShortcuts - 12 Years Ago
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I highly recommend reviewing the information shared on The Carburetor Shop LLC of Eldon, Missouri, web site. It gets at numerous issues raised earlier in this thread and makes the point that ethanol laced fuels, specifically E-10 and E-15, have the ability to attack certain metals, especially aluminum.
Additionally, there is insight regarding the need for recalibrating carburetors to avoid ethanol fuels causing engines to run leaner with the result that they run hotter. Running hotter negatively affects a number of things one might not think of offhand.
In this to-the-point article, various carburetor modifications for engines running E-10 or E-15 fuel are recommended. These include increasing jet sizes, changing float levels, changing out accelerator pumps and foam floats, staking the seats of neoprene-tipped fuel valves, and modifying vacuum controlled metering devices such as economizer /power valves.
Web site navigation: - address... www.thecarburetorshop.com
- categories at the top of the home page... toggle 'Articles'
- page that opens... part way down page... under heading 'General Information'... toggle 'Use of ethanol in older vehicles'
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By NoShortcuts - 12 Years Ago
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I don' believe what I went through to post the preceding entry. WoW!    
In doing one 'EDIT' attempt the resulting re-post lost one paragraph and the lead-in to the next one. Yikes!
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By ian57tbird - 12 Years Ago
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The aircraft industry also uses a lot of specialty alloys. I suspect the fuel line could be one of those alloys and not just of the shelf aluminium tubing.
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