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By CK and his 55Tbird - 11 Years Ago
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Ok this might hurt some of your feelings!
I am thinking of running an EFI carb, primarily I like that I can keep my original tach. drive load-o-matic, which the ecu will run(locked out). Thermo's controlled by ecu. And there will be no carb to meter fuel thru out the range and climates as well!
F.A.S.T Comp cams or the MSD version $2700
I will be running it on Mummerts manifold. $420
Total $3140
So it would cost me;
$400 dizzy as i have to upgrade if carby change
$200 Tacho
$500 carb. 570 holley etc.
$420 manifold
$200 thermo's with controls module
$1720 total
So thoughts people?
Maybe I can send it to Ted first to test????
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By charliemccraney - 11 Years Ago
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That's pretty much my plan. I'd have the distributor rebuilt and convert to Duraspark. Even though it will not be controlling the spark, it still has to send a consistent signal and a worn out distributor can't do that. The Durapark trigger will give you more common parts which will be easier to find.
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By bird55 - 11 Years Ago
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I think that would be a great thing for you to be able to send that setup to Ted Eaton if he would want to test it on the yblock Mule
I'm just now learning about this new product and it almost seems a little to good to be true. Of course the price tag keeps it from being an easy choice. gulp.
They sure make it look simple.
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By 5d6fairlane - 11 Years Ago
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Have you looked at the professional products bolt on fuel injection? They sell refurbished units on ebay and with their fuel pump controller you would not need a return line. I purchased one for my build but my reasons were it supported boosted applications and the injectors can be upgraded to support higher hp.
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By CK and his 55Tbird - 11 Years Ago
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charliemccraney (1/28/2014)
That's pretty much my plan. I'd have the distributor rebuilt and convert to Duraspark. Even though it will not be controlling the spark, it still has to send a consistent signal and a worn out distributor can't do that. The Durapark trigger will give you more common parts which will be easier to find.
I have a petronix trigger, yet i think its the early version. I can upgrade at a later date.
What brand have you been thinking, F.A.S.T. 2.0 or MSD etc. I like the Holley Terminator too.
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By CK and his 55Tbird - 11 Years Ago
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bird55 (1/29/2014)
I think that would be a great thing for you to be able to send that setup to Ted Eaton if he would want to test it on the yblock Mule
I'm just now learning about this new product and it almost seems a little to good to be true. Of course the price tag keeps it from being an easy choice. gulp.
They sure make it look simple.
I am hoping it will work that way, and obviously after spending the extra cash a better result too! Lots of over time to pay for that one!
Its durability through seasons, Fuel sources is where it will shine, and with the addition of the same ECU controlling Ignition.
Idle up motors and Throttle position sensors are about the only parts that are replaced over time, and thats not always either.
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By charliemccraney - 11 Years Ago
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CK and his 55Tbird (1/29/2014)
I have a petronix trigger, yet i think its the early version. I can upgrade at a later date.
What brand have you been thinking, F.A.S.T. 2.0 or MSD etc. I like the Holley Terminator too.
I want something that is self tuning so that I don't have to worry about that initially but it will also need to work with a turbo. It looks like Holley has a self tuning efi that supports boost. And I think Professional Products have one as well.
I haven't had good luck with Holley electric fuel pumps and my Holley a/f meter seems to be messing up so I don't really feel good about using an entirely electronic system from them. I don't like the fact that the ecu is apart of the throttle body and therefore on top of a hot engine on the Professional Products version. I'm hoping that by the time I'm ready for it, FAST will have something. And if MSD have one that supports boost, I may try it.
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By Doug T - 11 Years Ago
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CK
After reading all your postings here is my 2cents worth. I think you should sit down with yourself and figure out what you want the car to do. Do you want a 300pt CTCI show car, there are things to do and not to do to achieve that. Do you want a 11sec steel bodied T bird, there are things to do to achieve that too but they are different from the show car. Do you want a good street driver with vivid performance then there is a third set of things to do. Do you want to equip your ride with cutting edge technology, something different again.
On this site we appreciate all those kinds of cars as long as they are Y block powered. And none of us mind spending other peoples' money on cool pieces so you will always find someone here who will say go ahead to any remotely reasonable idea even if it doesn't directly help achieve your goals for your car.
Just one example, for a smooth powerful street driver I would bore and stroke the 292 as much as I could out to about 335 cu in and use a carb. This would be cheaper than the FAST EFI and would give a much easier to drive street car than a smaller but fuel injected engine.
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By CK and his 55Tbird - 11 Years Ago
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I strongly agree Doug T. I've always been taught to be practicle and keep things within proportion.
I like the EFI because it will stay in tune. Similar to Points.
To be honest before I pulled the engine I drove it here and there for various reasons and the smoke trail it left was amazing. Though it actually powered along fine even with the ocassional missfire from the oil fouled plugs.
So I wanted a convertible with a bench seat, daily driver.
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By CK and his 55Tbird - 11 Years Ago
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charliemccraney (1/29/2014)
CK and his 55Tbird (1/29/2014)
I have a petronix trigger, yet i think its the early version. I can upgrade at a later date.
What brand have you been thinking, F.A.S.T. 2.0 or MSD etc. I like the Holley Terminator too.I want something that is self tuning so that I don't have to worry about that initially but it will also need to work with a turbo. It looks like Holley has a self tuning efi that supports boost. And I think Professional Products have one as well.
I haven't had good luck with Holley electric fuel pumps and my Holley a/f meter seems to be messing up so I don't really feel good about using an entirely electronic system from them. I don't like the fact that the ecu is apart of the throttle body and therefore on top of a hot engine on the Professional Products version. I'm hoping that by the time I'm ready for it, FAST will have something. And if MSD have one that supports boost, I may try it.
I'll keep that in mind.
Wasn't FAST awarded at SEMA best new product???
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By LordMrFord - 11 Years Ago
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CK and his 55Tbird (1/28/2014)
Ok this might hurt some of your feelings!
I am thinking of running an EFI carb, primarily I like that I can keep my original tach. drive load-o-matic, which the ecu will run(locked out). Thermo's controlled by ecu. And there will be no carb to meter fuel thru out the range and climates as well!
F.A.S.T Comp cams or the MSD version $2700
So thoughts people?
You can have slightly better mileage and power output with EFI over good carb on street car but I doubt it.
I had TBI-style EFI myself and most gain was in idle and below 1500 RPM with stock cam.
If you want go cheap and easy then buy carb and modify your tacho. http://www.secondchancegarage.com/public/669.cfm
If you want go only easy(maybe) then buy that F.A.S.T or other self tuning EFI.
And if you want go hard and long way, cheap or expensive, then there is more options.
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By miker - 11 Years Ago
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I've got 55 bird, running an Accel computer, and a different throttle body. I've also got two other EFI cars, one with a highly modified computer, and one with an aftermarket race unit.
Since a lot of this is off topic,drop me a pm,if you're interested, and I'll tell you what Ive learned.
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By pegleg - 11 Years Ago
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Mike, put it into a new topic and post it publicly. I know I'm curious and I suspect others are as well.
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By CK and his 55Tbird - 11 Years Ago
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charliemccraney (1/28/2014)
That's pretty much my plan. I'd have the distributor rebuilt and convert to Duraspark. Even though it will not be controlling the spark, it still has to send a consistent signal and a worn out distributor can't do that. The Durapark trigger will give you more common parts which will be easier to find.
Just spoke to Summit racing and they have a TFI dist. for $199
The Holley has boost control and can manage 16 injectors etc.
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By charliemccraney - 11 Years Ago
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CK and his 55Tbird (2/7/2014)
Just spoke to Summit racing and they have a TFI dist. for $199
For a Y Block??
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By CK and his 55Tbird - 11 Years Ago
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I've bought the "Terminator" pretty happy to say so.Though no as I read more into it the summit dist. is for a windsor. Have to watch sales people sometime.
you were suggesting a Dura spark, Can these be fitted to orig dizzy?
Any suggestions?
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By charliemccraney - 11 Years Ago
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Yes.
http://forums.y-blocksforever.com/Topic21100.aspx
And more can be found by doing a search.
Are you going to get the Terminator installed soon?
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By CK and his 55Tbird - 11 Years Ago
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I've had it shipped to Ted and he will test it on the "312 mule"
I will run in my engine with the Tea pot and Load-O-Matic, I hope I made the right choice with the Cam.
Ok so "Dual sync" distributors, I know MSD and Mallory make one for the Y Block. Is there a method of converting my (L.O.M.) caucus to such.
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By CK and his 55Tbird - 11 Years Ago
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Holley suggested contacting "Performance Distributors" waiting on there reply.
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By charliemccraney - 11 Years Ago
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The easy way to convert a LOM distributor to dual advance is to buy a '57or newer dual advance distributor and swap the entire units out.
I don't think there is any easy way to swap the guts of the distributor.
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By LordMrFord - 11 Years Ago
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So that Holley EFI dont control a spark or it can use TFI-style locked dizzy? If it can, then it should read pertronix/crane-box as well and that should be quite easy job to do.
The Crank Trigger is best and simplest choice if the EFI package can understand that.
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By CK and his 55Tbird - 11 Years Ago
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The Terminator certainly does control ignition if its the tuners preference, it actually has 3 timing curves.
Apparently its the TFI or HEI systems which is easiest to connect. Holley suggested to fit a GM HEI module into the orig. dizzy.
These modules give out two signals, as the petronix I have only gives one signal.
With out reading the instructions I think the dizzy is set at about 50* BTDC and locked therefore the ECU can ignite anywhere from then through to 10* etc.
I like the Davies Unified Ignition because it fires for 20* and it runs a 50'000v coil through a 2-3 amp pick-up. This allows for a .055" plug gap.
I will keep you posted as I find out more on the subject. I am also lucky to have Ted investigating the system and I dare say he will test both options if able.
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By charliemccraney - 11 Years Ago
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I don't think you can fit the gm module inside the distributor, along with a pickup or points. You also won't find a GM style coil in cap distributor for a Y simply because there is not enough room. I actually tried to help DUI with this because they were interested in getting something on the market.
Using a 4 pin gm HEI module outside of the distributor:
http://forums.y-blocksforever.com/Topic73993.aspx?
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By LordMrFord - 11 Years Ago
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CK and his 55Tbird (2/11/2014)
The Terminator certainly does control ignition if its the tuners preference, it actually has 3 timing curves.
Apparently its the TFI or HEI systems which is easiest to connect. Holley suggested to fit a GM HEI module into the orig. dizzy.
These modules give out two signals, as the petronix I have only gives one signal.
With out reading the instructions I think the dizzy is set at about 50* BTDC and locked therefore the ECU can ignite anywhere from then through to 10* etc.
I like the Davies Unified Ignition because it fires for 20* and it runs a 50'000v coil through a 2-3 amp pick-up. This allows for a .055" plug gap.
I will keep you posted as I find out more on the subject. I am also lucky to have Ted investigating the system and I dare say he will test both options if able.
GM Hei module is used to transform signals to canted wave signal (HALL) so terminator wants to only know where is that 50 degree so it can start to calculate the ignition moment.
I dont know for sure but I have strong feeling that pertronic is suitable with some minor tricks.
(Y-Block's damn narrow) Rotor middle point wants usually to be in 25-30deg so it can handle everything from 0 to 60.
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By CK and his 55Tbird - 11 Years Ago
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How about fitting a windsor dizzy ? Are the gears, shaft lengths, housing diameters where fitting into block much different?Has anyone investigated this?
Then I could fit a TFI dizzy.
Even if I have to machine the block????
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By charliemccraney - 11 Years Ago
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The windsor distributor body is nearly identical dimensionally. The shafts and gears are different. The best thing to do is to get a tfi distributor from the junkyard, take it apart to see just what the differences are and determine how practical the conversion is.
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By CK and his 55Tbird - 11 Years Ago
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Is Charlie ok?
I do agree, however I have continued corresponding with Holley and I asked about the Waste Fire system.
This is an affordable "DIS" option, Yet once the Crank trigger has been fitted to the Harmonic Balancer, there are options.
I am lucky as I am able to fit the wheel and sensor myself so this becomes more affordable.
Therefore a very efficient ignition can be adapted. The waste fire consists of a four pack coil which is stronger than there single race coils yet it fires 2 plugs at a time. Yes each coil is shared by two cylinders. This retails at $550 plus crank trigger.
Alternatively $1000 for individual coils.
I figure the waste fire will be a great experience having such an ECU to run it.
To run an MSD unit with cd box coil etc is about that, yet no where near as interesting.
LordMrFord
Holley tells me its that the ignition trigger internal picks up may cause damage to the ECU due to noise/corruption from the rotor energy etc.
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By CK and his 55Tbird - 11 Years Ago
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So a normal carby will take all it can get from its venturies and therefore they have an all or nothing characteristic.
Where an EFI system gives as it thinks is appropriate. When tuned right there is no reason for it to be a better performer!
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By 5d6fairlane - 11 Years Ago
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I have read several articles where an efi conversion has been done and usually there is a lose in hp. Granted the holleys they replaced had been tuned for the engine and not just run out of the box. For me the plus side is instant start up and idle plus being able to use it with a blower.
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By charliemccraney - 11 Years Ago
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CK and his 55Tbird (2/13/2014)
Is Charlie ok?
Me? I'm fine. Why?
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By CK and his 55Tbird - 11 Years Ago
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Will be interesting to see how it goes on the "312 mule"
I was reading last night and found that the Terminator or when upgraded to HP can run 16 injectors. Therefore a set of multi-point injectors (sequential) can be set as the primary injectors and then the injectors in the TB can be activated as boost injectors, fuel, NOS etc. or a second set of multi-point. Vice-versa
Have any of you experienced m90 superchargers on y block?
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By LordMrFord - 11 Years Ago
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CK and his 55Tbird (2/18/2014)
Will be interesting to see how it goes on the "312 mule"
I was reading last night and found that the Terminator or when upgraded to HP can run 16 injectors. Therefore a set of multi-point injectors (sequential) can be set as the primary injectors and then the injectors in the TB can be activated as boost injectors, fuel, NOS etc. or a second set of multi-point. Vice-versa
Have any of you experienced m90 superchargers on y block?
ECU support is not a hardest thing when you try to get 8-point injection on Y-Block...
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By CK and his 55Tbird - 11 Years Ago
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I guess those ports are challenging.
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By LordMrFord - 11 Years Ago
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Yes it is. Custom made intake manifold is only way to go, unless you have enough of spending bucks to destroy one Hilborn set.
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