Hello- I'm thinking I'd like to swap the 3 spd. trans in my '57 T-bird out for a 4 speed. I think I may have found the 4 spd., it's a T10 - B7- Would I be able to use this trans. without too much modification? -Thank You-

BOO- YA!!!

While the T-10 may suit your needs, I would go with the Ford T & C toploader trans. I think there are more parts around for them, are more readily available (remember, Ford only used the T-10's for a few years) and are stronger than the T-10. There are a few mods to done to fit behind a YBloc.



Generally, there are two variation in input/output shaft. Most were the smaller (I will say ordinary) size and were used for all engines up to 390's (not sure about the Merc FE's). The second was the super duty which had bigger input and output shafts and were used for the 427, 428, etc. In addition there were close and wide ratio versions.



Then there are at least three variations in mounting holes. The early ones had the same bolt pattern as the YBlock bellhousing (I know, I got one of these) and are somewhat rare. The second had both the YBlock and new bolt spacing at the top (four holes). The bottom holes are the same as the Y. bell. The third had just the new pattern at the top, Y pattern at the bottom. However, many people have told me that the holes for the top Y pattern can be drilled into the case with no problems. There may be other versions but I am unaware of them.



There are two variations in the front bearing retainer/throwout bearing slide??. The very early ones were the same size as the Y - these are very rare. The second series had a slightly bigger diameter at the outside rim and will not go into the Y bellhousing hole. They can be trimmed to fit with absolutely no problems.



The input shafts are too long when inserted into the pilot bushing/bearing. This is about 3/8 of an inch, but you should always measure before doing any cutting. Truck Y bells are different in the spacing between the block and the transmission mount (longer) so be careful on how the input shaft fits. I have zero experience with a TBird bellhousing so I have no idea if there are any problems relating to length of the input shaft..



David Key, who is a toploader expert, has a web site and it has information on the toploaders. He makes transmission cases and tailshafts, including a repro of the early Falcon tailshaft which puts the shifter right behind the case and should clear all seats. Regarding shifters - when looking for a shifter for the Falcon tailshaft mount, I found the the Hurst listing did not show one for the toploader, only the T-10. Key has a Hurst for this application.



I have a toploader trans behind a 312 in my 54 Ford and I am very happy with it.



What the T-10 may have going for it is that it may have the correct bolt pattern and bearing retainer size. I don't know about the input shaft length situation.

54 Victoria 312;  48 Ford Conv 302, 56 Bird 312
Forever Ford
Midland Park, NJ

Agree on the top loader, they are very strong and trouble free.  Another place to look for advice and parts is called "toploader heaven".  The guy is amazingly helpful.  I had never rebuilt a tranny before and bought his kit and instructional cd and specialty tools and had no problems with rebuilding a toploader I bought off of Ebay.  Saved a bunch of money. 

Duck Guy:

I'm gonna throw a little more mud in your pond.  Since you are making a conversion anyway, have you considered going to a 5 speed OD?  If you do a lot of highway driving in your Bird, the overdrive would be a nice option.

John

John - "The Hoosier Hurricane"

I am on the same side as Hoosier.  I have a T-5 Mustang transmission in my '56 customline and I love it.  Mummert's adapter and new rear mount.  I guess it really boils down to how much you want to modify your bird.

Jan  Urbanczyk  Major USMC Ret.

                                                                 Bowie Maryland

Hi,  There are a couple of articles on installing 4-speeds in T-Birds that may help you.  A couple of years ago there was an article about installing a T-10 in a little Bird, I think it was a 2-part article.  It was in the Early Bird magazine (CTCI club publication).  Also in the #61 issue (Mar-Apr 2004) of Y-Block Magazine was an article about installing a toploader in a '57 'Bird.  It included part numbers for a Hurst shifter, rear trans mount, etc.  Paul2748 has given you most of the info you need already.  Before you start, check the 3-speed input shaft length vs. the input shaft on the 4-speed.  I had to cut about 5/16" off of the toploader shaft for my T-Bird.  The T-Bird bell housing is the same as in Ford passenger cars.  One other thing, the speedo gear that goes in the trans will probably have to be changed because the teeth run in the opposite direction if the cable comes in on the pass. side instead of the driver's side.  If you have a good deal on a T-10 then have at it, otherwise you should pick up a toploader, as they are stronger and parts are much easier to get.  That being said, I have to agree with John that a 5-speed is probably the way to go.  It depends on your driving, of course.  Good luck!  Nick Brann

Thank you all for the good information, I really appreciate it. The reasons I thought the T10 was the candidate for me are I can take nearly anything apart and put it back together (with no "spare" parts left over but I'm a neophyte when it comes to altering things to get 'em to work. The other reason is I understand the T10 will "bolt on" (more or less). I've been hunting for a 4 speed for what seems to be a long time, now but prices have scared me off (not to mention the lack of 4 spd.'s to be had. I really don't care for my current 3 spd's dubious "hit or miss" shifting tendencies, and the above mentioned wide ratio T10 is currently on "that auction site", although I suspect shipping will prove to be the deal killer- I'm currently waiting for a response/ shipping quote from the seller. Thanks again to all... TDG

BOO- YA!!!

any of you tranny guys know how to identify a top loader? I'm going with a mustang t5-od trans on a 5.0 engine in a 57 ranchero. I want to put my 4 speed on ebay, but i'm not sure on the year/model #HEH AR 012931 thanks, Mark





thanks, Mark

Hi Mark,  According to David Kee's site the HEH-AR transmissions came out in the 1966 Fairlanes with 390 engines.  It is a wide-ratio with the 28 tooth input shaft.  Good luck!  Nick Brann

Hello; You might want to double check that answer. The 1966 Ford shop manual has the HEH-AR listed as Fairlane/Comet 390 2 or 4 BBL and as CLOSE RATIO. 2.32/1.69/1.29/1.0,  Pete