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By 56_Fairlane - 11 Years Ago
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Took my 56 for a nice drive or at least I was hoping it would have turned out that way. It was running really nicely until it sputtered out in a left turn lane. It wouldn't restart. A couple of really nice guys with tow straps helped pull me into a parking lot. The carb looked a little wet so I let it air out with the throttles open for a few minutes. Tried to restart and I could see gas start gushing from the side of the carb, The air cleaner was back on at this point so I couldn't see exactly where it came from as I quickly went to shut it off but it sputtered out on it's own. To me this sounds like a float issue that let it overflow. If it is, is this something fairly simple that can be looked into?
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By speedpro56 - 11 Years Ago
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It could also be the gasket under the big screw that holds the needle and seat not tight enough or just wore out. The float can be adjusted as well if not for a pin hole in the float letting it fill up with gas and going to the carb floor.
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By DryLakesRacer - 11 Years Ago
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Sorry to read of your problem. I remember our families original 56 and some problems my dad had with the carb and ignition.
Not wanting to alter the look of my 56, I changed the teapot Holley to a small base Carter WCFB. Many were made for 50's Mopars, GMs, Packards, Studebakers, Mercurys and Lincs. I used one from a 53 Cadillac which needed a small bracket for the throttle linkage. They adapt easily to the stock choke also. It has been trouble free and no worries about flooding or leakage. The jetting was perfect; the Cad has more cubes but less compression. I also installed a 57-62 centrifugal/vacuum distributor which made the conversion easy.
For the "stock" look, I converted a stock air cleaner I bought off e-bay to cover the change and look factory. Most looking have no idea. I can e-mail you photos if you want. All seem to be too big when I try on this site and I can't seem to make them smaller.....good luck
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By Daniel Jessup - 11 Years Ago
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Very few carburetors are as sensitive to fuel pressure and leaks as the Holley 4000's. That being said, they are a good carburetor when built correctly. The Y block got it's name and prominence with many of them holding teapots on the intake - let's not forget that. I would imagine that the fix would be pretty simple once you are able to get it home and in your garage so that you could take a look at it. I noticed your title said, "More teapot woes" ... did you have this one rebuilt by somebody and then started having trouble? I can't remember the earlier posts. I can tell you this - What Gary is telling you is most probably the first place to check, especially if you have a smooth bore behind that brass plug. The fuel bowls that had the spring loaded fuel needle/seats are extremely sensitive to fuel pressure and leaks. What fuel pump are you running by the way?
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By oldcarmark - 11 Years Ago
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Couple of suggestions.When these Carbs are rebuilt usually the little clip that keeps the needle moving in tandem with the float is discarded.That clip should be re-installed.Most of the rebuild Kits include a new style inlet needle with a "soft" Tip.The originals were all Steel and can be purchased from some of the vintage Ford Parts sellers.The cover over the inlet are very bad for leaking.There is a superior replacement now available that uses an o-ring instead of a Gasket.One of the T-Bird suppliers sell them.Casco maybe?Personally I gave up on mine with the "dead" spot just off idle and replaced it with a 4160 Holley(new with Electric Choke) and a "B" Manifold and late Distributor.Like Night and Day.This swap can always be reversed-but why would anyone want to?Just my little input.
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By 56_Fairlane - 11 Years Ago
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I haven't had a chance to check the big screw again. I didn't really have much time to look at anything today. I checked it after the last time I had trouble with it and it looked fine. After the last time, I did switch to the later distributor. It seemed to run better. Someone had installed the wrong vacuum advance on the original distributor and I thought it was the problem then. The only difference this time was it sputtered out when I came to a stop and would not restart. I had made a couple of stops before this happened and it seemed to start fine and ran good until I went to make that left turn. The other time I had just shut it down for a few minutes and it wouldn't restart. After a few attempts that time it ended up backfiring up the carb an a small fire erupted. Luckily it got put out before any damage occurred. I really hadn't had a chance to drive it since the last problem until today. I was only driving it a few short distances around my house but I was getting it warmed up every time.
I'm running an aftermarket double action pump with no glass sediment bowl. I have another one with the bowl I recently got from another member here. I also soon after getting that one, I got an NOS AC pump. They both seem to work well on the bench. The next chance I get, I am going to try to start it an see where the gas is leaking from. I also have a B manifold and a 57 model Autolite 4100 just waiting to go on but I was putting it off thinking the teapot was OK. Maybe this will be the time to make the swap once and for all.
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By slumlord444 - 11 Years Ago
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You might check to see if the vent holes in the top of the carb are clogged. Can cause flooding.
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By 56_Fairlane - 11 Years Ago
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Just so I know which are the vent holes on this carb, is there a good image that show them?
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By Daniel Jessup - 11 Years Ago
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I don't have an image to show you right now, but the vent holes he is referring to is actually on the very top plate that covers the fuel bowl. 4 cap screws and the main air cleaner stud mount hold the plate to the fuel bowl. You should have a large washer (resembles a fender washer) under your stud on the middle of the top plate. If you remove the stud and washer, you should be able to see all of the vent holes. They are small.
<embed width="600" height="361" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowFullscreen="true" allowNetworking="all" wmode="transparent" src=" http://static.photobucket.com/player.swf" flashvars="file=http%3A%2F%2Fvid249.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fgg208%2Fdanaxjessup%2FHolley%2520Teapot%2520Ford%2520Carbuertor%25204000%2Fteapotfour.mp4&title=Holley%20Teapot%204000%20Talk%20Ford%20Instructions%20three">
click on the above link. I found a video I made for a buddy of mine that shows the lid and the large washer that you need to remove to see the vent holes. Keep in mind that the teapot I am holding in the video is a 56 (I assume you have a 56 correct?) the earlier versions have a different set up for the choke and also the secondary tubes, but the overall issues in question will be answered for you.
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By 56_Fairlane - 11 Years Ago
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Yes I have the 56. IIRC, I think that washer shown is missing. I wonder if that is the root of my problem?
Thanks for the video, Reverend.
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By Daniel Jessup - 11 Years Ago
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To be honest, I am not exactly sure why Ford/Holley has that washer installed there, but I am pretty sure it has to do with the venting. I believe it acts as a deflector so that the incoming air does not affect those vent holes. Someone here with some gray hair correct me if I am wrong on that...
Seems I remember a video that was posted here some time ago. It was during the annual Y block nationals and the video showed Ted Eaton discussing that very issue of the washer. I can't remember and I can't find the video!
sorry about that
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By Jimz Bird - 11 Years Ago
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This is probably more than you asked for but I will take a chance that it may be useful to you or others.
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By 56_Fairlane - 11 Years Ago
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Thanks Jim. So far, Mike's looks like the best resource for the carb.
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By Meandean - 11 Years Ago
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No expert but your problem sounds exactly like what happened to me not too long after I purchased my 55. Coming back from an evening cruise and pulling up to a rural stop sign and it died. Would not start. Finally got towed to a friend of a friend about 2 miles away and then called tow truck to haul it home the next day. Frustration and confusion. Let it set for about a week because I didn't want to deal with it. Started right up. Drove in around the neighborhood and no more problems. Then drove it about 15 miles one day to a friend's car gathering and it did it again (how does it know when I'm far away from home?!?!). Anyway, that time it eventually did start and then I noticed it was loading up big time. Made it home by popping it in neutral at every stop and keeping the engine revs up. Next day I took the carb apart and cleaned out the little orange rust deposits to include the float seat and put it back together. Added an in-line filter between the fuel pump and carburetor and have had no problems since. I now make it an annual maintenance task to replace the fuel filter. Takes about 5 minutes max and cost about $4. It probably is no where near clogged, but it's cheap insurance and gives me peace of mind.
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By 56_Fairlane - 11 Years Ago
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I'll have to open up the top and check the bowl, float and seat. The car had a new tank installed before I bought it. It does sit most of the time but I've tried to empty the tank when it sat. I've also only used ethanol free gas the last few times.
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By charliemccraney - 11 Years Ago
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Daniel Jessup (7/21/2014)
Seems I remember a video that was posted here some time ago. It was during the annual Y block nationals and the video showed Ted Eaton discussing that very issue of the washer. I can't remember and I can't find the video!
sorry about that
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By 56_Fairlane - 11 Years Ago
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I think he's talking about a different washer under the air cleaner screw. Anyway I have the right bolt in that spot and it was snug. The 56 carb does not seem to have the "fender" washer that goes under the bolt.I took the bowl cover of to see the inside of the bowl and it was ugly. There was this slimy sludge in there that dried into hardened powder-like substance. I was able to blow most of it out. Then I took a small brush and gently scrubbed the rest with some gas. It cleaned up nicely after blowing it out again. I'll check the rest of the orifices out tomorrow to make sure they're clear. I'm still not sure this gunk was the problem. The float valve seemed OK. I also cleaned the fine screen at the fuel inlet in the carb. I might try it out again after I put it back together. I won't go to the trouble and expense of rebuilding it. I have the B manifold and Autolite 4100 almost ready to go if the teapot remains problematic.
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By Daniel Jessup - 11 Years Ago
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I believe that was the video I was referring to, thank you Charlie. Could not remember all of the content, but that certainly was Ted Eaton discussing the "seal" there at the stud and that washer that goes underneath of the stud. That had to be the video I was thinking about.
DJ - if you carburetor is that "gunked" inside the fuel bowl then I would imagine that there would be other areas/orifices of the carb that would need a good cleaning and inspection. I suggest you remove the teapot and install your B manifold and Autolite 4100. Those videos in the series from "Mike" are good references for a rebuild. It sounds like your teapot would not need much, just a little attention and a suggested kit. If you get a kit, go with someone like Daytona Carburetor down in Florida. Their materials and kit parts are excellent.
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By 56_Fairlane - 11 Years Ago
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I don't plan on tearing into the teapot any further. It's going back together and then into a box to be put away for that day "if I ever sell the car". I'll at least have all the original parts to include in the sale.Right now my plans are to temporarily put the 4100 on the A manifold to see what sorting out it may need. I have an adapter that will work. I have a nice B manifold but I need to paint it to match the original patina of the engine. Right now the bright red of my B manifold will just stick out too much from the rest of the engine. Before I make the complete conversion, I also need to find a correct carb spacer and a pre-bent fuel line. I don't have a big enough tube bender to bend the size of stock tube that I need. I'll probably use some fittings and rubber hose until I find the right tube.
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By GREENBIRD56 - 11 Years Ago
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When I drove my '56 home it had the teapot on board - and the troublesome vacuum only distributor - and I had to "maintain" the rascal like an evil MG or the like. The point being - that even when I did a "proper job" of restoring the various items - it still wouldn't stay fixed. I finally went looking for the '57 top end equipment (with later day improvements) and haven't regretted the change - despite "disapproval" by the perfect T-bird enthusiasts. It's possible to keep a very authentic look to the vehicle - without using the "perfect" parts. All of the troublesome bits are now in the garage attic with "next owner" marked on the boxes. But it starts and runs very nicely, thank you.
Just think of the day to come, when you'll just check the oil - and fire it up for a drive!
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By 56_Fairlane - 11 Years Ago
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By golly Steve, that's what I was hoping I could when I bought the car! My wife's grandfather had a 1956 Customline (I think) Victoria up until 1973. He always drove around with a fire extinguisher sitting near the driver's kick panel or the the tranny hump. I never hear any story about a fire in the car but he must have known something. I never really asked him about it. Too bad he passed away around 2001. I know he would have had some good tips or he maybe would have said to me why on earth did you buy a car like it. He actually worked for Ford back in the day. He traded the 56 for a brand new 73 Gran Torino. I continued to see the 56 being driven around town by an older lady for many years after that. Thinking back I would have really liked to have had that car but at the time I wasn't that interested in it nor was I offered it.
I'm going to get some paint, gaskets, hoses and fittings and get my car reliable.
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By DryLakesRacer - 11 Years Ago
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56---If you do the swap and don't want to use rubber fuel lines invest in a 3 size ( 1/4" 5/16", 3/8" ) tubing bender. I have one from Harbor Freight and it's worked perfectly.($6) Stainless line will break it.
I make mockups of what I want with coat hangers and then make the bends on the tubing. An auto parts store near me stocks different size and lengths of "fuel" line with fittings and after the bending I usually need to make one cut and double flare. I didn't like the double flare tool from HF so I bought a better one Amazon along with a new tubing cutter. I've bent new fuel and vacuum lines for the distributor and wiper and the hot air for the choke.
After I've made my cut I usually need to practice a flare to get it right. Some say you don't need a double on fuel fines, just on brakes, but I usually do it for all but the heat line on the automatic choke.........Good Luck |
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By 56_Fairlane - 11 Years Ago
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Thanks for the tip. I've already ordered the last few parts I need including the fuel line already bent, to do the swap.
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By 56_Fairlane - 11 Years Ago
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I just noticed this evening when trying a dry fit, the Autolite doesn't exactly fit the B manifold. The heater valve on the manifold is in the way with the linkage in the front of the carburetor.Here a picture of one for reference where you can see the linkage I am talking about. |
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By Daniel Jessup - 11 Years Ago
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Will a thick phenolic spacer help it clear maybe?
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By 56_Fairlane - 11 Years Ago
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No, I mocked one up with an aluminum adapter and it still was binding. I could just try to use a low angled elbow for the heater hose but then I might have heat all the time. The part number on the carb I have indicated it was for a Y block but I'm wondering if the parts book is wrong?I guess I just need to look for a Holley 4160 even though I'm not a big fan of their carburetors. They're more complicated than the need to be.
Anyone have a good spare 4160 that I would just be able to bolt on and use? |
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By GREENBIRD56 - 11 Years Ago
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The T-bird guys often use a replacement water control valve that is operated by a cable from your heater controls - rather than the (troublesome/expensive) vacuum valve. The new manual valve fits at the hot water entrance to your heater core and the old valve on the intake is replaced by a 90º heater elbow from a 289. A fellow told me the simple lever operated valve is from a 60's International pickup (though I can imagine others would work) - and the longer cable (?). In place, the new parts look pretty much like they belonged there.............
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By Ted - 11 Years Ago
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I don’t recall seeing any ’57 Ford V8’s using the intake mounted vacuum controlled heater valve which would help to explain the clearance issue you’re having with the later model Ford carburetor on that intake in conjunction with what I'll call a '56 Ford heater control valve. That same vacuum control valve on a ’56 Ford would not have had a clearance problem using the Model 4000 (Teapot) 4V Holley. My '57 Fairlane with a 312 engine had a manually operated valve at that location and from all initial appearances, looks stock.
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By MoonShadow - 11 Years Ago
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When looking for a cable heater control valve make sure it works in the right direction. It took a little searching to get the right one. Unfortunately I don't recall what it fit but I think it was a 60's Ford. As far as the carb interference some adapters have a recess area to clear. Can you grind on your space to gain the needed space? Chuck
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By Jimz Bird - 11 Years Ago
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Heater Control Valve
Something like this will work in line from the 90 degree fitting.
Maybe locally sourced. Dodge et al. Here they have them for lever closed either way. $26.37
http://www.bpeusa.com/BPEheaterValve.asp
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By 56_Fairlane - 11 Years Ago
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So it sounds I would need the control valve used in the 57's full sized cars. Ted, do you have a photo or a link to a photo of the control valve?
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By 56_Fairlane - 11 Years Ago
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I did a bit of googling and it looks like all that goes in the hole in question is a 90dg fitting and the heater valve is remotely controlled somewhere up the line.
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By Ted - 11 Years Ago
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56_Fairlane (7/23/2014)
...... Ted, do you have a photo or a link to a photo of the control valve?
I sold the ‘57 last year but here’s a picture of the engine just prior to being removed with the heater control valve still in place.
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By 56_Fairlane - 11 Years Ago
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Thanks. It's kind of hard to get a good look at the actual fitting and the valve but I do get the idea here. Do you know if that was stock and if something like it is available somewhere?
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