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By Barry L - 16 Years Ago
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Anyone able to help with tea pot carb list numbers for a 2 four set-up? The only numbers we can find are the ecz and 1162 2 and 1161 2 , cast along the base edge.Would these have been the proper carbs for a factory 2 four ? Any carb suggestions for an easy to install,tune ,and have fun driving set up? Tea pots don't seem to be the most user friendly.....let alone a pair of them!! A friend wants to install this on a 312 auto. 57 Meteor,mostly for looks,but wants driveability. Thanks for your ideas. Barry only -4 , near Winnipeg
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By Hoosier Hurricane - 16 Years Ago
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Barry: The '56 dual carbs have EDB-C stamped on the rear flange. The '57 carbs have ECJ-AA and ECJ-AB, uses one of each. The ECZ series carbs are all single carbs. The dual carbs have some differences that improve driveability, but the singles can be made to work pretty well.
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By Barry L - 16 Years Ago
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John Thanks for the carb info. Barry
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By Ted - 16 Years Ago
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The 1161-2 and 1162-1 carbs are both 1956 carbs but the catalogue listings are as follows: List 1161-2 1956 Ford & Merc, 312 engine List 1162-1 1956 Ford & Merc, 292 engine There’s a difference in these two carbs and without knowing exactly what that difference is, it would be best to look for another carb that will be an exact match for either of the existing carbs.
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By marvh - 16 Years Ago
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In my old Holley book it lists the 1162-1 as fitting 1956, 8 cyl with 292 engine and std transmission and 1161-2 as replacement carb for 1161-1 fitting 312 engine with auto transmission
The few things I could see different in the parts listings between the two carbs is each has a different fast idle cam on the choke and the fuel inlet needle and seat. The 1162-1 has a 18R-30A needle and seat. The 1161-1 has a 18R-28A needle and seat. If I remember correctly the difference between the two needle and seat numbers is one is threaded in and the other has a spring to hold seat in place. Another difference between the two carbs would be the distributor check valve (ball) in the base of the carb on the std trans carb.
I have converted many carbs to threaded needle and seats as they are 24TPI this is 3/8 SAE size however the seat is larger OD than SAE bolt size. The 3/8 X 24TPI tap from a heli-coil set is the correct size to do this mod. On a disclaimer I do not know if all heli-coil manufacturers taps are the same size OD or thread depths, before doing this mod I would check that the depths are the same. I would not want someone to ruin a good carb
marv
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By Barry L - 16 Years Ago
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Thanks for your help guys. Barry
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By PF Arcand - 16 Years Ago
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Marvh: I don't need a Holley Teapot rebuilt, but are you really conversant with these carbs? At this point in time many owners of those carbs are abandoning them, because of lack of service availability. Or can you recommend anyone to repair or rebuild them?
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By Ted - 16 Years Ago
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Marv. Thanks for the additional info. Knowing that the carbs are different in regards to transmission application helps. You've obviously got some good literature regarding these carbs.
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By marvh - 16 Years Ago
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Ted;
You are very welcome, just my contribution to the discussion.
Paul:
Yes I have rebuilt many teapots as I was a Lincoln Mercury Meteor mechanic in the early sixties started in 62 when these cars were fairly new.
As to recommending a rebuilder I don't know as I rebuild all my own teapots. On my own car I use an ECU carb from a 56 Lincoln and drill the vacuum connection in the base of the carb for the vacuum lines same as the ECK carb is. The "A" intake manifold doesn’t have a plug fitting to use like the "B" manifold does. Dave from Victoria when doing his restorations uses a seller on ebay called vette200. I have never bought anything from that seller so cannot comment. Another person I see selling teapots is Ken Lyle from WV. I have bought stuff from Ken over the years and very good to deal with. I do not know who rebuilds for him but if Ken uses him them likely is good.
The teapot is a very easy carb to disassemble and very simple to rebuild as comparing to a Carter WCFB where you need a box of metering rods and jets, lots of special tools, tools to bend the accelerator pump linkage vs the teapot it is either hole 1 or hole 2. The carb is probably too simple that is why so many mistakes are made on them. The teapot it is only one part of a circuit. Some of the most critical areas that affect the teapot are carb secondary diaphragm, gaskets others areas that affect performance and gets blamed on the teapot are, vacuum advance,vacuum lines and dual diaphragm distributor, (I have probably missed some other areas). Any problem in any of these your vacuum advance does not work, secondary’s do not work and engine performance sucks.
Problems can be in areas other than carb itself.
Some examples of problems I have seen with these carbs is the gasket for the secondary diaphragm is installed 180 degrees out. The gasket looks correct if placed against the carb body; however if placed against the secondary diaphragm body it does not cover the vacuum gallery to the secondary diaphragm and leaves a vacuum leak. Gasket is missing under the air-cleaner bolt/nut in top of carb. Secondary diaphragm ruptured or not installed correctly to have a perfect seal. Spark valve installed loose. The vacuum line to distributor so worn out the brass fittings will not tighten the line even though the nut is tight. The carb is very tied to the distributor through the vacuum signal to the distributor. The vacuum signal is very small and any slight leak leaves no advance. Another is choke hot air tube burnt off in manifold allowing exhaust gas to coke the choke up and even get into the vacuum circuit coking the spark valve and line missing to provide clean air to the choke.
I normally set the choke butterflies over 1/2 -3/4 open. The car is in a heated garage, used in the summer and even if cold outside in the fall just pump a couple of times or darn choke stays on to long and floods if not allowed enough warm-up.
The teapot is one of the few carbs where the engine will run if flooding as the gas is pouring down the outside of the carb onto the intake manifold rather than into the engine as other carb makes usually do and will stall the engine that way before the towering inferno starts.
marv
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By DANIEL TINDER - 16 Years Ago
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marvh,
Interesting. The exploded diagram in the Holley 4000 manual shows the diaphragm body gasket to be symmetrical, while the holes in the carb body are not (?). No warning is noted re: reversing error. Wouldn't be the first time I have seen mistakes in FoMoCo/Holley drawings.
Also, the diagram shows/lists no gasket under the air cleaner bolt. Were you referring to the air-bleed or lock washers?
Funny, but I have the opposite experience with choke butterfly settings. If not totally closed, manifold vacuum will pull it too far open upon starting, and it will die (unless pumped furiously beforehand). Stalling/flooding usually never a problem after a few seconds running, since just blipping the throttle releases the butterfly.
My main complaint with the 4000 is leaking gaskets (if carb is left sitting empty long enough for them to dry out).
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By Richard Miller - 16 Years Ago
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I don't know if I'm looking in the right place or not but on the base of my T-pots, on the secondary side it looks like mine are ECJ9510AA and ECJ9510AB. Am I looking at the right numbers or is this just a casting number and the other numbers are elseware? Bad light, bad eyes and the wrong angle for my bifocals
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By Hoosier Hurricane - 16 Years Ago
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Richard: You are reading them right, and they are the correct '57 dual carbs.
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By marvh - 16 Years Ago
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DANIEL TINDER (2/2/2009)
marvh,
Interesting. The exploded diagram in the Holley 4000 manual shows the diaphragm body gasket to be symmetrical, while the holes in the carb body are not (?). No warning is noted re: reversing error. Wouldn't be the first time I have seen mistakes in FoMoCo/Holley drawings.
Also, the diagram shows/lists no gasket under the air cleaner bolt. Were you referring to the air-bleed or lock washers?
Funny, but I have the opposite experience with choke butterfly settings. If not totally closed, manifold vacuum will pull it too far open upon starting, and it will die (unless pumped furiously beforehand). Stalling/flooding usually never a problem after a few seconds running, since just blipping the throttle releases the butterfly.
My main complaint with the 4000 is leaking gaskets (if carb is left sitting empty long enough for them to dry out).
The three screw holes on the secondary diaphragm housing gasket are equidistant to each other. The two vacuum holes in the gasket are not equidistant. I have seen some gaskets with only one vacuum hole.
The teapot used on the 55 cars had the air bleed. Originally they had a lock washer on each side of the air bleed. Lock washers on carburetor tops scare me as I have seen two engines having to have the head pulled when the owner unscrewed the air cleaner and the stud came out dropping the lock washer down the venturii, one chev a six and the other a FE with new holley.
I have tested several of the float covers under water with air pressure and found they leak around the brass bushing that the aircleaner stud passes through. I use a hard fiber washer under the aircleaner stud to seal this area and rids the risk of a lock washer falling into the engine. The bottom of the bushing does not go through the float cover as it has a flange and is sealed well by the float cover gasket. If a vacuum leak occurs either at the bushing the economiser diaphragm will not pull up properly and the spring on the economiser diaphragm will hold the power valve open. Your fuel economy really suffers then and a very rich condition, plugs fouled, rough idle etc.
marv
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By DANIEL TINDER - 16 Years Ago
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marvh,
Fiber washer seal for float cover bushing leak sounds like a good tip. I stack extra washers under the stud anyway, as my repro T-Bird aircleaner's too-tall paper filters don't leave enough thread for the wingnut.
Re: your previous statement about teapot flooding/gas running down the outside only: I got an emailed newsletter ad yesterday (CASCO) for a new O-ringed teapot needle/seat cover. They said the OEM cover gasket usually leaks, dripping gas down into the secondaries.
As a side note, I just picked up a NOS Motocraft needle/seat assembly with the steel ball (no more sticking Viton needle troubles). But, I have to wonder (aside from cost?) why they changed the design. Do the steel-ball needles wear out faster and leak, or maybe suffer alcohol corrosion?
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By DANIEL TINDER - 16 Years Ago
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marvh (or anyone),
Previous comment re: worn/loose/leaking metal vacuum line (carb-to-dist. diaphragm) connection, and resultant lessening of minimal vacuum signal:
I have always wondered why the factory vacuum line had no flare? It seems to me that air would be harder to secure than fluids (?), and the brass carb/diaphragm fitting design does not look like other compression-type fittings (brake/fuel, or water even) I am familiar with.
Wouldn't double-flaring the line (a la brake lines) eliminate any future vacuum-leak problems that might upset the sensitive low-level Loadomatic system? Would nipple air fittings and rubber vacuum line be a more reliable way to eliminate leaks?
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