Alternator conversion


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By jrw429 - 14 Years Ago
My goal with my 57 wagon is to have a road trip car. I want reliability for long trips, moderate power for pleasurable driving, and reasonable economy. I had planned on an alternator conversion, but turns out I'm doing that sooner rather than later. I've been searching through old threads to find all the info I can before diving in. If I switch to a Delco 100-amp 1-wire alternator, what happens to the "GEN" idiot light in the dash? Can it still be functional or is it just disconnected? And if functional, are any wiring changes needed? How do I wire in the alternator. I get that it is internally regulated and you just take the 1-wire and connect it to the battery. But what about the old wiring, voltage regulator, starter relay, etc? What needs to change and what should be removed?



As for the conversion hardware, it seems there is general agreement on two possibilities. Either an L.D.Becker bracket plus alternator, or a John Mummert bracket and supply your own alternator.



L.D. Becker Auto Electric

P.O. Box 624

Norwalk, Ohio 44857

419-668-5986



http://www.ford-y-block.com/alternatorbrkt.htm



The photos of the Mummert bracket look awesome. But the convenience and price of L.D.Becker seems very attractive. Does anyone have photos of this setup?
By charliemccraney - 14 Years Ago
I've heard that some one wire alternators do have an output for the GEN light. Also, Ron Francis wiring have a thingy that will illuminate the light if it voltage drops below 11v. Otherwise, it will not be functional.



http://www.ronfrancis.com/products.asp?dept=302



The one wire will go to the positive side of the starter relay. The regulator and other wiring can go on the spare parts shelf. Then you have a nice place to mount an aftermarket ignition box!
By jrw429 - 14 Years Ago
http://www.oldengine.org/unfaq/10si.htm has some info, and a really good write-up can be seen at http://bob_skelly.home.comcast.net/~bob_skelly/alternator_conversion/wiring_alternator1.html and http://bob_skelly.home.comcast.net/~bob_skelly/alternator_conversion/wiring_alternator2.html. Turns out I actually want a 3-wire alternator.



Thanks for the pointer to Ron Francis. They have an amazing selection.
By junkyardjeff - 14 Years Ago
Just put a Ford external regulated alternator on it and use the gen light wire to activate the regulator,thats what I done to my 55 and the light works like it should.
By Jimz Bird - 14 Years Ago
Two of my projects for over the winter are to put alternators on both the Tbird and the Mainline.

This article and others have convinced me to go with the 3 wire set-up.

http://madelectrical.com/electricaltech/onewire-threewire.shtml

Also going to use the Ford alternators.

Another good article there on "Voltage Sensing".

http://madelectrical.com/electricaltech/remotevoltagesensing.shtml

By snowcone - 14 Years Ago
This is the "elcheapo" mod that I just used with a single wire GM alternator

http://web.archive.org/web/20080513185243/http://www.ranchwagon.com/Tech/alt/alt.htm.
By kevink1955 - 14 Years Ago
Keep your Ford all Ford, use a ford alternator.
This applys to wiring a late model, small case Autolite Alternator in the 56 ford car, I beleve that 54,55 and 57 use a similar harness but keep in mind  that the 54 and 55 where 6 volt so other changes will be needed. These Alternators have a Brush holder/Voltage Regulator mounted on the back of the Alternator.

My choice is the 91 thru 97 Escort 1.9 engine as it has a split mount that makes mounting a snap. You will need to change the pulley to a "V" belt type to use this alternator. The pulley can be from just about any alternator as long as the belt grove width will work with your belt. I am sorry to admidt my pulley came from a GM alternator.

I would recommend removing the entire Generator harness back to the regulator as well as removing the original regulator. This will leave you with a 10ga Battery wire (may be paired with a 12ga that goes to the horn relay) and an 18ga that is the Gen Light Circuit. Insulate the 10Ga as you will not need it in the conversion.


At the alternator your best bet is to obtain the first 6 inches of the regulator harness from a salvage yard (most fords 80 to 97 with a small case alternator with 3 terminal intergral regulator will have this harness. If the Harness you obtain also has the Output lug terminal and 8Ga wire, Discard the wire and terminal as you will not need it.

This harness will have 2 connectors, 1 will be a 3 terminal that plugs into the regulator, the other connector is a 1 terminal that plugs into the alternator. When this harness is mated with the alternator you will be left with 2 unconnected wires coming out of the regulator connector.

A 14Ga Wire from the "A" terminal and a 18Ga wire from the "I" terminal.

Run a 14Ga wire from the "A" Wire to the Battery side of the Factory Starter Solnoid.

Run an 18 Ga wire from the "I" terminal to the Factory Voltage Regulator location, connect this wire to the 18ga Gen Lite wire that is left from the removal of the original regulator.

From the Output Stud on the Back of the Alternator run an 8Ga wire to the Battery side of the Factory Starter Solnoid. This wire will meet up with the wire you previously ran from the regulator "A" terminal, do not be tempted to make this
junction at the alternator and only run 1 wire. The "A" wire is used by the regulator to sense battery voltage and should be run separate.

In summary, you should have the following connected

(1)  Alternator output stud with 8Ga wire to the Starter Solnoid (battery side)
(2)  Regulator "A" wire with 14Ga wire to the Starter Solnoid (battery side)
(3)  Regulator "I" wire with 18Ga wire to the Factory Gen Lite wire.
(4)  Reguator "S" wire to Alternator "S" terminal (should be part of the salvage harness)

The "I" wire to the Gen Lite and a good Gen Lite bulb are required to insure that the Alternator "Turns On" at low RPM. The Output Stud should not be run to the factory harness, go directly to the starter solnoid, I would not want to push 70 Amps thru 10 ga factory harness, you will smoke the harness!

It looks like a lot but in the end it's only 3 wires, 2 of them going to the same place (solnoid) and 1 connection to the factory harness for the Gen Lite.


Mounting is simple, the top mount of the alternator is a split design that will stradle the original top engine mount. Use a 3/8 threaded rod with nuts and washers to set the alternator in position for proper belt alignment. The lower adjusting brace is from a small block ford, it's about 14 inches long in stock form. Cut about 4 inches off the engine side and drill a new 5/16" hole, bolt it to a waterpump bolt and your done. The lower brace is commonly avaiable at most speed shops in chrome as a dress up item for the 289/302 series engines.

By snowcone - 14 Years Ago
Quote "Keep your Ford all Ford, use a ford alternator." Quote



I would've but in Australia - New GM alternator $100, Ford Alternator $250

They both make voltsBigGrin
By kevink1955 - 14 Years Ago
There has to be a reason the GM volts are cheaper, make sure you drain the Ford volts from the battery before you try to put them GM volts in there.

Being serious, for the savings I would go with the GM alternator also. You may have trouble finding the Escort alternator anyway.

If you go with a GM and want to retain the GEN light get the 3 wire (internal regulator) style, It will wire up almost like I wire the Ford, 2 wires to the solnoid  (output and voltage sense) and 1 to the old regulator location for the GEN light

By snowcone - 14 Years Ago
Mine will be easy as I don't even have a wiring loom in the car yet (it's a rebuild from scratch)

Just rebuilt the 272 and it's still on the stand and I finished rebuilding the fordomatic at the weekend and it's sitting on the garage floor behind the motor.

Rear end of the car is assembled so I just have to start installing the driveline and then the front end of the body.

The suspension is all done.

Having fun with it but my missus is giving me grief for ignoring all the things around the house that I promised I would do if I could just buy a Customline.
By Frankenstein57 - 14 Years Ago
Someone made a point that if you are out of town, or on a road trip, and the one wire alternator takes a dive you are probably screwed. So maybe a 3 wire that is in stock at the auto parts store is the way to go. I went with the chevy alternator because the bracket kit for my ac called for it, forgive me for I have sinned.
By Jimz Bird - 14 Years Ago
Kevin,
Thanks for the tips. They are very helpful.

This site appears to be a good resource.

http://www.rjminjectiontech.com/collections/alternators/products/alt-7778

New small case 3G 160 Amp for $125 clocked for however you need.

They also have starters, relays and other wiring stuff.

Has anyone used their products?

By miker - 14 Years Ago
My experience only, I'm sure it's not all the alternatives.



Most early available GM alts. are 3 wire, but if you short the second and third terminals, they become 1 wire. The threaded stud is the output, and the "spades" that accept the plug are the wires that sense voltage output, and sent it back to the internal regulator. I set my first one up with the jumper, and even with the larger wire for a 6 bolt system (now 12v), there was noticeable voltage drop at the battery. On my 'bird, that was only 5 or 6 feet of wire. When I connected the other two wires back to (I think) the battery and the light, the voltage at the battery went up to 14.7 or so. That's how I've wired them ever since, and no problems. These style GM Alternators seem to be the most available when your stuck, but I've had two fail, both the fancy chrome ones that don't do so good a job of dissipating heat. Buy the cast aluminum, and put the fan on.



I don't remember the connections for sure, but the gen light in the 'bird works as it should. The only serious failure, which was heat, resulted in charging at 17+ volts, which boiled the battery real quick. Now I've got a voltmeter, too. But this was a very tight, high heat installation, in a car that ran real hot at times, and the alt. was buried under the blower.



Most of the major wiring harness sites will give the correct wiring diagram, which I would trust more than my memory.
By rick55 - 14 Years Ago
My experience here in Oz is that the GM alternators we get new here are unreliable to say the least. I have had brand new one wire and three wire faulty from new.

The best option is the Bosch alternator fitted to late 70's to mid 90's fords and Holden's. You can pick the up anywhere cheap and they just keep working.They are much better quality than the GM deco alternator.

I know what I will always use.

Regards
By 292fan - 14 Years Ago
Hi, I did an alternator conversion on my 63 Falcon and am planning on doing the same on my Galaxie.I used an alternator and voltage regulator for a '65 Mustang, and used this diagram. After 2years, all is still working fine. Gen light functions as well. Just my humble input.Smile
By jrw429 - 14 Years Ago
Wow, a lot of options and a lot to consider. Thanks for all the input. I bought a generator rebuild kit, and I'm going to stay original for the moment. After I can consider more, I'll probably make the change to an alternator. Plus, I want a working generator on the shelf so it can go back to original.
By jrw429 - 14 Years Ago
Jimz Bird (11/2/2011)

New small case 3G 160 Amp for $125 clocked for however you need.





Ok, so "clocking" appears to be the orientation of the BAT terminal relative to the upper attachment bolt hole. I've seen this as an option on other alternators as well. How does one choose the correct clocking?
By Jimz Bird - 14 Years Ago
Clocking:
It is really selecting the location of the mounting holes in the device to match up with whatever kind of bracket you are using.  The other consideration is to look at the electrical connections so the wiring faces in the best routing position for neatness and safety. 

By having a top hole (12 o'clock) and another one at either the 4 o'clock or 8 o'clock position should give you the flexibility to find a good orientation to mount the device.  I don't think there is a right side up so that may give you more options if you need to mount it "upside down".

HTH

By Frankenstein57 - 14 Years Ago
Jim, I just went back out to the shop, I promised you a reply. The bracket kit does not use the dipstick bolt hole. I did bend the tube upward to clear the alternator. It was a pretty good kit,I did have to alter a shim to get the fan belt true. I thought the alternator and compressor were reasonable.