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By FORD DEARBORN - 13 Years Ago
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Greetings to all: The rebuilding of the 292 in my F100 is now in the planning stage. I finally found the cam of my choice offered by an outfit called "Thunderchicken Automotive." This is the standard 57 Ford cam with 256 advertised duration, 208 @ .050, 113 LSA, INT. centerline 110, EXH. centerline 116, I believe this would mean it's advanced 3 deg., INT. lobe lift .269, EXH. lobe lift .282, Timing @ .050: INT. opens 6.4 ATDC, INT. closes 34.3 ABDC, EXH. opens 39.5 BBDC, EXH. closes 12.1 BTDC. I have been able to confirm some of this data as I still have a very used 57 Ford cam with "EDB" to compare it to. I have been in touch with Cid at Thunderchicken Auto and was informed that this cam was ground from lobe masters made from the original 57 cam. I think this may explain the lack of .003 lobe lift. I haven't purchased this cam yet but it is on my list. Just Google Thunderchickenauto and it should come up. They refer to this as the "EDB" cam. I was told these specs were from the Cam Doctor provided by the grinder. If anyone has had experience with this vendor, please comment. Hope this helps............JEFF
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By Oldmics - 13 Years Ago
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Camshaft measurments were not taken by Ford at .050 .This leads into a grey area where timing event specs get juggled around. The only way to ascertain .050 specs is to use a Cam Dr (or similiar device) and measure your original camshaft.Then you still have to account for its wear on the lobes. I may have just that information on my other computer.I will check and post back tomorrow. Oldmics
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By FORD DEARBORN - 13 Years Ago
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Those specs are taken at .050 by a cam doctor (ie. valve opening and closing events and duration at 208). Most of the information can be deduced from the Ford specs and it seems to agree. Seems this cam offered by Thunderchicken is indeed the 57 "-B" cam. Some things must be at a specified lobe lift to compare apples to apples. However, lobe centerline and seperation are positions in a circle which I have been able to compare all sources of info and all seems to agree including my crude measuring with V-blocks, a degree wheel and dial using my very used 57 cam. That's why I believe this cam is the real deal. To me, anyways, it is one cut above the "de-tuned" cam and is excellent in the low end area plus a very good cruiser. This is how I will be using my 64 truck. Mr. Oldmics, any info you may have will help much. I have noticed several threads related to this cam so maybe all this will prove is the B7A-6250-B cam in indeed available to those of us that have been looking for one. Thanks, JEFF..................
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By Oldmics - 13 Years Ago
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I believe we should start at the basics for information comparison purposes. Specs I have for the B7A-6250-C (EDB-6250-C ) cam are ,Intake lift .260 /Exhaust lift .273, lobe sep 113 ,duration 256 which I believe to have been measured at .015. The B7A-6250-C cam that I have measurements for agree with your 208 duration at .050- BUT we are nowhere near close on the event timing and centerline specs. The S.A.E. measured locations of the timing events that Ford used are useless in an .050 discussion so I am omitting them at this point. I believe that you may be in consideration of different specifications based upon your previous post. Please be good enough and confirm or deny your lift specs to my Ford engineering specs.  I have been aware of this "ThunderChicken" cam for a while now.It seems to be the only game in town in regards to an original stick grind.But lets see how close it really is. I would also be concerned about the metalurgy pedigree of any cam these days. Oldmics
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By PF Arcand - 13 Years Ago
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Further information relevant to this posting-
In an extensive article on Cams, in issue #77- Nov.-Dec.2006 of YB Magazine, J. Mummert gave the following specs for the 1957 EDB Cam. (also refered to as the 245 HP or "D"code cam) Intakes first;
Advertised duration 256 degrees.
Duration at lash 285/268.
Duration at 0.50 lift 209/208 degrees
Lobe lift 271/283
Lobe seperation 114 degrees
(These are grooved cams.)
He also noted that historically cam grinders have used different intitial lifts for measureing advertised duration. Essentially these figures are of little or no value. The excepted starting lift currently is 0.20 "
He also noted that this cam was notibly somewhat hotter than the earlier & post 1957 cams..
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By PF Arcand - 13 Years Ago
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Oldmics: the intake lift of .260" you posted is roughly consistent with the 1955-56 & post 1957 Ford cams, not the 1957 EDB cam. The lift of .273" on exhaust does not appear anywhere on Mummerts chart... so ?
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By Y block Billy - 13 Years Ago
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Just get a mummert (Clay Smith) 272 cam or go with the 282, I got the 272 and it performs great, He's done his homework! do wish I would have went with the 282 for a litlle more, but no complaints with the 272.
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By Y block Billy - 13 Years Ago
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Just get a Mummert (Clay Smith) 272 or 282, I got the 272 and it performs great, hardness garranteed, he has done his homework, wish I would have got the 282, but no complaints with the 272, performs awesome.
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By Y block Billy - 13 Years Ago
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oops! diddn't think my other post went through, didn't show it on this end.
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By FORD DEARBORN - 13 Years Ago
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Greetings everyone: PF Arcand pretty much sums it up. Provided were specs published in a 2006 YB magazine by J. Mummert of the 57 EDB cam or referred to as the 245HP "D" code cam. Yes, that's the cam and all other information I have found seems to agree. At least within 1 or 2 degrees and .001 or .002". The "Thunderchicken" cam more than likely is it. Someone else questioned the quality of parts from this vendor. Good point. IF I end up buying this cam from Thunderchicken, I'll let everyone know how it holds up as occasional lobe lift checks will tell the story. You guys probably think I'm nuts with this 57 EDB cam business but too lengthy to go on here. Thanks, JEFF.................................
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By Oldmics - 13 Years Ago
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I"m away from my library for a few weeks while on vacation so I dont have access to hard data. If somebody could take a look see at the Eickman book and post what his specs are regarding this cam,it would be helpfull. Oldmics
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By Ted - 13 Years Ago
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Here are the specs off of an original low mileage ’57 Mercury 312 EDB camshaft that was reverse engineered for the below listed numbers. This particular camshaft was measured at both the #1 and #6 cylinder lobes. Intake duration @ 0.020” – 241° Exhaust duration @ 0.020” – 238° Intake duration @ 0.050” – 207½° Exhaust duration @ 0.050” – 208° Intake lobe lift – 0.266” Exhaust lobe lift – 0.284” Cam is ground on 113° lobe centers Cam is installed at 115° intake lobe centers as measured with its original ‘worn’ link belt timing set. After measuring several of the EDB camshafts, there appears to be some variability in the grinds which I’ll attribute to both machining variances and the day of the week the grinds were being produced. This would help to explain why some engines ran so much better than others with all other aspects being equal.
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By FORD DEARBORN - 13 Years Ago
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Thanks Ted for the EDB specs. @ .050. This definitely confirms the aftermarket EDB cam from Thunderchicken Auto is the real thing. My interest in this cam is to keep my 292 rebuild on the tame/efficient side of the spectrum. My 64 F100 equipped with 3 speed overdrive and 3.5 rear gear cruises at about 2200rpm at 70mph. Shouldn't do too bad in the fuel burn department. Now to find the best way to raise the CR with the C1TE heads? Thanks, JEFF....................
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By NoShortcuts - 13 Years Ago
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Jeff, I’m sure that you are NOT the only person interested in an original '57 ‘D’ cam or some semblance thereof. IF you're really going to use the engine on the street and highway, how the engine performs in that rpm range is of utmost importance.
The set-up I’m presently working on will use a T-5 trans. with a .73 5th gear and 3.56 rear gears. Using formulas found here in the Forum, with P205/75R-14 tires, at 70 miles per hour, I’m looking at 3,207 rpm in 4th gear, and 2,341 rpm in 5th gear.
While I like the sound of a lopey cam, I’m more interested in drivability and sleeper-type performance in the rpm range a street (stop-and-go) and road (highway legal speeds) driven vehicle will be operated in. Many factors go into accomplishing drivability, but the camshaft is central to induction, compression, and exhaust decisions. I want:
- a reasonable (mannerly) idle speed
- smooth off-idle acceleration
- good low rpm engine throttle response
- responsive performance at highway speeds
One variable that I have not acknowledged is engine displacement. From my own experience, I’ve seen the same cam perform entirely differently in two different size y-block engines. One was a stock bore 272 and the other a 312 bored to 322. The 322 was much more ‘mannerly’ than the 272.
Another consideration today is compression ratio. More aggressive cams seem to be more street-able IF they operate with a higher compression ratio. Higher compression requires higher octane gas. The cost of gasoline for someone planning to seriously drive their vehicle should likely be considered in the engine ‘build’ if they want to enjoy the ride.
As always, everything is a compromise.  I wish cam selection was less of a ‘black art’ for me as a hobbyist! 
If Verne Schumann does produce a new y-block, I recommend that provision for a variable valve timing system be included!
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By miker - 13 Years Ago
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Maybe 25 years ago, Crower was selling a line of cams for whole line of scrubs ( and maybe others), that they broke down by common displacements. The hot cam for the 283 was the mild one for the 400. They apparently did a fair amount of research, but it did allow them to sell the same part number under varying descriptions for different CID. Don't rememember now what I had, but the performance was right on with the description for the motor I had in.
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By slumlord444 - 13 Years Ago
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Engine displacement has always affected cam perforance. The more cubic inches, the milder the cam will be. The less cubic inches, the more radical the cam will be. 406 Ford cam in a 390 for example would idle rougher and wind up quicker and not be as driveable as the same cam in the 406.
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By PF Arcand - 13 Years Ago
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Ford Dearborn: If you buy the supposed EDB cam from Thunderchicken, best check it out as much as possible "before" installation. Changing a Y-blk cam is no 5 minute job.. Oh, and ask where it originates from or is ground at.. if it's from China, hang up the phone!
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By yblock32deuce - 13 Years Ago
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bought a cam a couple of years ago from thunderchicken. when i received it, had no cam card with it,so called them and talked to cid(?).after discussing, installed it,and have been pleased with it.
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By FORD DEARBORN - 13 Years Ago
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The country of origin is always at the top of MY list. If it's a Chinese part, I'll let you know. Yblock32duce says he had a positive experience with a cam from Thunderchicken Auto - cool.
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By marvh - 13 Years Ago
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The foundry stamping on the Thunder chicken cam I have is CWC and stamped E210S on the end. The info I was given they were ground in Oregon.
To me it seems to have a smaller base circle than an original EDB cam.
I bought one a year ago then changed my mind and and installed a Mummert Y265-S cam. I really like the profile of the Y265-S. I checked again this AM and the foundry marking is CWC not CWG as I read yesterday. Here is a link to the CWC site. http://www.camcraft-cams.com/
marv
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By PF Arcand - 13 Years Ago
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Marv: Trying again.. site froze up again!! To keep it short; Replacement cam cores are CWS. Ones marked SYB-2 are Mellings, marked 229-1210 are Clevite. Mummert says 246 degree (nominal) cams usually have "210" in part #. So the Thunderchicken cam is likely "not" a EDB/ D code 1957 cam.. Mummert quote, These replacements "fall far short of the 1957 D code cam"..
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By FORD DEARBORN - 13 Years Ago
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Greetings to all:In researching various cams here are some things I discovered regarding the E-210-S cam which is supplied/distributed by Elgin Industries. It's also the cam sold by several antique vehicle parts suppliers such as NPD in Canton Mich.. And yes, the specs do indeed seem to be the same or very close to the "de-tuned" cam. That being said, those specs for the E-210-S cam are very different from the cam doctor specs I received from Thunderchicked's EDB cam. I think if you Google Elgin Industries you should be able to navigate your way to the "210" cam which is NOT the EDB cam. Elgin does supply specs @ .050 so one can make a good comparison here. Also, Elgin Industries is not the same as "Elgin Cams" owned by Dimitri Egin. Thanks, JEFF...........................
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