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By 56_Fairlane - 13 Years Ago
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The carb in my '56 Fairlane caught fire today. I was trying to restart it after it sat about 15 minutes. It didn't start after several attempts but didn't notice a backfire either. I started seeing some smoke weeping through the gaps in the hood. I opened it to see flames licking around the bottom of the air cleaner. I quickly put out the fire with an extinguisher. The next step will be to figure out why it caught fire.
It was hard to start earlier today and took a while before it would idle right. It also didn't want to start up to easily after I shut it down for a moment before I took this ill fated trip. It ran fine on the trip.
Before the fire, I was figuring the problems were because it sat for about a month since I last drove it.
I've heard these things can catch fire and have checked it for obvious leaks before driving every time.
The car is all stock and has less than 31K original miles. I'm sure the carb has been rebuilt somewhere along the way but I'm not sure when.
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By oldcarmark - 13 Years Ago
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The nickname for these carbs is "firepot".I would start by having a look at the needle and seat.If the needle is rubber tipped you should locate the old style steel needle and seat.Also is the clip originally used to clip the needle to the float in place on yours?The carb rebuilders throw them away when they use the new replacement needles with the rubber tip.That clip makes the needle move with the float to better control fuel flow.The rubber tipped ones become soft and can stick in the closed position and than open when the fuel pressure forces them open after the float drops-than your carb floods and the raw gas runs down into the motor because the float bowl is located over the carb throat.Another thing to look at is the screw on cover over the needle and seat.These covers are terrible for leaks.There is a new replacement available with an O-ring instead of a flat gasket.I bought one and they are really the solution to that problem.My buddy bought a rebuilt carb,put it on and immediatley starting leaking from that cover.Put on the new replacement and problem solved.Theres a couple of suggestions to start with.One more while I think of it.The centre stud for the air cleaner should not be overtightened on the carb as this can pull the centre of the cover down and lift the edges leaving the cover permaently warped.That stud only needs to be snug not overly tightened. If you go on Ebay and enter #380482947937 that is the old style steel needle and notice the wire clip.Thats the clip to attach to the float.That part# B6A-9654-A is also available from some of the obsolete dealers.
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By 56_Fairlane - 13 Years Ago
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Thanks very much for the tips. Those will be the first things I'll check once I clean up the mess from the extinguisher. It certainly could have been far worse. It doesn't look like anything got damaged for now.
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By dbzach64C - 13 Years Ago
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Sorry to hear about that. Same thing happened to a friend of mine and it nearly burnt his 56 bird up. They don't call those carbs "the towering inferno" for no good reason. He went in search of a 57 intake and newer Holley the next day. Told me he'd keep the old burnt up carb in the trunk to show any "purists" that had questions.
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By MoonShadow - 13 Years Ago
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As I recall from past conversations the number one problem is overtigtening the center stud. The needle problem is partialy a result of modern (ethanol) gas that attacks the rubber. The old style needle cures that. I think the carb, just like the Y-Block, got somewhat of a bum rap over the years. I know several "Fast" cars that are using them. Chuck
PS: don't take this to mean I've never had one burn on me.
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By John Mummert - 13 Years Ago
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I have never used a Teapot but have been told that the cause is plugged air bleeds to the secondary barrels. When these become plugged the fuel can siphon fuel from the float bowl and drip into the manifold. This makes a hot restart difficult and can lead to a back fire.
The vents can be cleaned with a small wire
I would insert a picture if the site would let me. I guess this has changed since the last time I inserted a picture??????????????
Well I guess i figured this out but what a PITA
Anyway, the vent hole acts as a vacuum breaker as long as it is open but when it gets clogged the fuel can flow from the float bowl down into the secondary barrels.
http://www.y-blocksforever.com/forums/Attachment651.aspx
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By 56_Fairlane - 13 Years Ago
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These are all great tips that I will be checking this Saturday when I have a chance. I may just end up converting the car because there will be times it may sit without being driven during the fall and winter months.
I'm kind of surprised to hear that Y-blocks have gotten a bad rap. My last one was a 292 in a '63 F100 and it couldn't be stopped. It was a great engine that was about as smooth as any V8 could run.
The teapot OTH has its issues and it makes more sense now more than it ever did before why my wife's grandfather drove his '56 Fairlane with a fire extinguisher within easy reach.
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By oldcarmark - 13 Years Ago
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If you are thinking about a conversion I can tell you what I did with mine.I bought a 57 and later intake which has the universal square bolt pattern.I used a 390 CFM Holley with electric choke and the later dual advance distributor which you MUST change if you go away from the Teapot.I also installed the Pertronix 2 ignition setup.Much improvement.The gas doesn't evaporate from the float bowl if it sits for a couple of days.The dual advance dist. has the lighter Mr.Gasket advance springs and I have setup the timing advance with help from "Greenbird" so that the vacuum advance is limited and all advance in by 2500 RPM.This setup is much more tuneable than the original setup.Mine is stock but the way it runs now is like night and day.There are other carbs that can be used as other members have done.They all work well.
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By 56_Fairlane - 13 Years Ago
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Oldcarmark, I think I've read your original post about the conversion. I've done a lot of reading lately in regards to going either way.
Once I find out what component caused the fire and if there's been any damage to the teapot, I'll the be able to make a decision.
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By oldcarmark - 13 Years Ago
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That conversion is popular.Different carbs for different people but the results are similar.Better driveability,performance,reliability,and I think gas mileage.Much more adjustable and tuneable.And at the end of the day you can re-install the original compenents and never know it was changed.
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By PF Arcand - 13 Years Ago
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Just for information, even changing to say a later Holley carb does not guaranty that a similar gas leak problem won't happen. My 2 Bbl 2300 would leak fuel down into & onto the intake after shutdown. It was caused by plugged orfices also. As usual the problem was diagnosed by people on this site.. Fortunately it never caught fire.
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By 56_Fairlane - 13 Years Ago
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I worked on the '56 today and cleaned up most of the extinguisher dust of the engine and surrounding areas. That stuff is hard to clean up. There was no damage.
Anyway I checked the big screw on the back for the needle and it has the flat gasket on it but it doesn't look like it's leaking. After I got it running again I went to check the screw for leaks and it was holding pressure because it sprayed gas when I loosened it. Is it a sign that the needle is sticking? The tiny bleed holes in the top of carb seemed to be clean as I was able to stick a very small needle into them with out any trouble. I haven't checked the needle yet to see if it's a rubber tipped one as it looks like I'd have to take the carb off.
I think I found something else that may be an issue. It looks as if it has the wrong distributor. Right at idle it produces about 20 degrees of advance and only advances about an additional 10 degrees or more at higher RPMs. So setting the timing with the the advance disconnected it becomes way off after it is reconnected.
A few photos before I cleaned it up:
And the distributor in question:
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By oldcarmark - 13 Years Ago
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A question about your distributor.When you take the cap off are there springs visible ABOVE the breaker plate?That would be the original "loadomatic " type distributor.At idle it should NOT advance at all.Have a look and let us know what you have for a distributor.The later style distributor has the springs UNDER the breaker plate and you can see them through the holes in the breaker plate if you look close.One thing I do see in the pics is that the distributor has a vacuum advance unit with only one line to it.The 4bbl 292/312 had a dual chamber on it originally with 2 lines going to it.Looks like someone changed the vacuum can to a single or maybe the whole distributor.When you take the cap off check for broken return springs if its the loadomatic type distributor.
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By 56_Fairlane - 13 Years Ago
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I opened the distributor and it has the two springs on the breaker plate like it should. It certainly has the wrong vacuum advance unit. I found it was replaced many years ago by the previous owner at a shop that appears didn't really understand this engine. I will have to look around for the correct unit and get it plumbed correctly for it to operate correctly. Currently the the spark control orifice on the carb is plugged.
Perhaps this may correct some of its starting issues? I'm wondering if its likely that in its timing setting at the time of the fire that it may have backfired and started the fire.
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By oldcarmark - 13 Years Ago
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If you are interested in a litlle better running car before you spend money for an advance unit(they are fairly hard to find new and not cheap)you might consider buying a later model distributor.What you want is a rebuilt unit for a 1964 Ford F100 truck with 292.They are available through most auto parts stores and if you check around they should be $50-$75 plus you need a cap and rotor for V-8 Ford from 57-74.What this gives you is a unit with centrifugal advance and vacuum advance.Much more sensitive to engine RPM and load.We have a couple of inexpensive tips to "tune" the advance curve if you go that way.If you are thinking of changing carb at some point you will need that distributor anyway.I have that later distributor and 390 Holley on mine with the 57 and later manifold and its quite an improvement.I only used the new distributor at first and even just that was a noticeable difference.
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By 56_Fairlane - 13 Years Ago
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So it sounds like it may be easier and maybe less expensive to change the distributor than find another advance unit?
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By speedpro56 - 13 Years Ago
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The later distributor will work wayyyyyy better than the 55 advance setup you now have plus the performance should be alot better as well , and should cost less than the advance for a 55 or 56 as the others said.
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By oldcarmark - 13 Years Ago
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I think you will find it less expensive than fixing the original.Just check around price wise.They all come from the same rebuilder-Carcone.The appication is 1964 Ford f100 pickup with a 292.Thats the last year the Y-Block was used in N.America
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By Hoosier Hurricane - 13 Years Ago
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You will also need the matching cap and rotor for the later distributor.
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By 56_Fairlane - 13 Years Ago
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If only a distributor from a '94 302 would work. I have a spare one that is almost brand new.
I'll start looking around for the later distributor set up.
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By pegleg - 13 Years Ago
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You won't have to look far, Autozone, Advance, O'reillys and NAPA all carry them.
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By 56_Fairlane - 13 Years Ago
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Guys, what year range of distributors can I use? I found Rockauto has a '59 for about $60 + core. O'reillys has the '64 for $63 + core. I imagine I could find some better deals with discount codes if I looked around some more.
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By junkyardjeff - 13 Years Ago
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57 to 62 car and 57 to 64 light duty truck.
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By oldcarmark - 13 Years Ago
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Anything for a Y-block 292 312 after 1957 will work.I will get you the Carcone part# Monday and post it.I have the box in my garage with the # on it.
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By oldcarmark - 13 Years Ago
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The # is Carcone 30-2808.A reminder you will also need a new cap and rotor if not included if you buy one.
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By 56_Fairlane - 13 Years Ago
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Thanks guys.
It looks like there may be a carb adapter for the intake. I found one on a manifold listed on eBay. I'd rather try and see if I could find some kind of adapter to use a Holley 4100 rather than replace the entire manifold. I haven't found an intake yet for a price I'm willing to spend at the moment.
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By 56_Fairlane - 13 Years Ago
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I ordered my distributor today from Advance this evening. $52.20 total. It would be $10 less if send my old dizzy but I'm keeping it if that's all they'll give me.
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By oldcarmark - 13 Years Ago
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Good deal.Hold onto your old one.If you decide to sell the car at some point it can be converted back to original.
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By Talkwrench - 13 Years Ago
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Give this a shot in it. Ive just put one in mine,use the matching coil! Its not that much more than the ignitor 2. Grab a set of Mr Gasket springs D925 as well http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pertronix-Ignitor-3-71281-FORD-1957-1974-V-8-/200805670465?hash=item2ec0f35e41&item=200805670465&pt=Vintage_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&vxp=mtr
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By brokengate - 13 Years Ago
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I have the tapered later model carb adapter for the early manifold which came off my 312 when I put the BT manifold on, yours for the asking and the price of shipping, let me know.
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By 56_Fairlane - 13 Years Ago
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PM sent!
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By 56_Fairlane - 13 Years Ago
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oldcarmark (10/15/2012)
Good deal.Hold onto your old one.If you decide to sell the car at some point it can be converted back to original.
You can be sure I'm keeping the old one. I'm sure it's worth more than the $10 core charge.
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By 56_Fairlane - 13 Years Ago
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Worth a try after I get everything sorted out.
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By 56_Fairlane - 13 Years Ago
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I replaced my '56 distributor with the wrong vacuum advance to the newer '57-'64 type distributor today. It made a huge difference how the engine started, idled and ran. I also looked over the carb for leaks and I noticed a few damp places that could cause problems. One was around the primary throttle shaft and another place around the secondary feed tubes. Another thing I noticed while trying to start it the first time. It was before I had the timing adjusted the correctly and it hiccuped and I saw gas spit up the air bleeds at the top of the carb near the air cleaner stud. I almost think that might have been the cause of the fire. After I had the timing set, it started and restarted without a problem. The flat spot in acceleration also looked like it was gone. I would have taken it for a drive but it was raining and I have no desire to drive it in bad weather unless I really had too.
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By oldcarmark - 13 Years Ago
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You will find the flat spot is improved however you should be aware that was a problem with these carbs even when they were new.
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By DANIEL TINDER - 13 Years Ago
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[quote][b]oldcarmark (10/9/2012) "The center stud for the air cleaner should not be overtightened"
FYI: That also goes for the air cleaner wing nut!
While I was always careful to torque the stud to no more than shop manual specs., it was over-tightening the wing nut that finally stripped the threads down in the float bowl. Then, instead of springing for an expensive Helicoil kit, I went with the epoxy 'Form-a-Thread' repair, didn't get the stud out in time (glued in), snapped it off while trying to unscrew it, drilled it out and then snapped off an 'easy-out'.
Long story short, I then drilled out and threaded the cover for an oversized stud, which worked fine until recently when tightening the wing nut I pulled out the brass bushing in the cover I had threaded. Everything is glued back together now with high-temp/gas resistant epoxy and working OK, but the carb is seriously screwed up as it will likely need a new float bowl/body & cover some day.
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By 56_Fairlane - 13 Years Ago
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That sounded like some serious over-tightening. I tightened my center stud to just snug and then the air cleaner wing nut down to a few clicks.
Originally I found the center stud unscrewed along with the wing nut. Someone had tightened the wing nut really tight into the stud itself.
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