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By ronsplace - 12 Years Ago
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I'm curious if most Y-blocks have a cold-start problem, or is it just mine? The 312 in my '56 Fairlane is out of a 1957 Ford wagon and it has been completely O-hauled: bored .040 over; "RV" cam; Mummert intake; 600cfm Edelbrock carb.
It runs strong and smooth, but it doesn't like to start when it's been sitting for over a couple hours. The longer it sits, the harder it is to start. If it's been sitting for a week or more, I have to crank, crank and crank to get it started, and then I have to let it warm up quite a bit at fast idle before putting it in gear (C4 automatic), otherwise it will stall immediately. Once it's warmed up, it runs beautifully.
I installed an electric fuel pump, thinking maybe gas was evaporating from the carb after sitting for a few days and that by running the fuel pump for a minute or so before starting, it might fill the carb bowl and solve that problem. It didn't. The compression is good in all 8 cylinders; the timing is spot on; plugs are new; carb is new; ignition is Pertronix.
I'm at a loss at this point. Someone suggested this is a problem common to all Y-blocks because of the "stacked" port design of the heads, but I've not heard of that being an issue. By the way, the motor starts instantly with just a slight tap of the key when the engine is warm and has been sitting for less that 10-15 minutes. If it sits for any longer than that, it begins to have starting problems.
Any ideas will be welcome.
Thank you, Ron
Southern California
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By Dobie Gillis - 12 Years Ago
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I can think of 2 things, both of them possibly folklore but here goes. First, I also have an Edelbrock carb and I have the same symptoms you describe. Friends tell me it's just the nature of the beast. Also, y's seem to be cold hearted b*tches. Mine takes it's time warming up, but runs like a top once it does warm up and pops off at the touch of the key. Again, seems to be the nature of the beast.
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By 312T85Bird - 12 Years Ago
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I would check the fuel system from the pump (Including the pump) back to the gas tank as it sounds like the system bleeds back to the tank and may even have a small enough leak somewhere that does not push out but sucks air into the line. Also if the choke is not set properly you will have to pump enough fuel in to actually cause the motor to "diesel fire" due to excessive fuel needed to start and it will also not idle in gear until it is warmed up. And do not forget the potential vacume leak under the carb, I just had a guy that put a replacement carb on and used the gasket that came with the carb and it had an open center instead of a full gasket which sucked air like all get out with the same type of symptons, put a full gasket in and problem solved. I probably would start there first to be honest.
Tom
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By paul2748 - 12 Years Ago
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I get the same thing when it has been sitting for three or four days or more.
However, if used every day, I don't have a problem and the same if its only been shut down for a short while (4 or 5 hours.)
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By 62f250 - 12 Years Ago
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I dont have any experience with edelbrocks on y blocks but have had several edelbrocks on other fords. Have you set your idle air screws with a vacuum gauge? May make a difference? Do you pump the throttle at all when its cold?
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By ronsplace - 12 Years Ago
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Tom: Your suggestions sound spot on. It explains why my engine won't start when cold--engine has cooled down, fittings and metal surfaces have contracted, and fuel/vacuum leaks are occurring. Conversely, it would explain why it starts instantly when the engine is hot--all those fittings and metal surfaces have expanded from the heat, sealed as they should, and there are no vacuum/fuel leaks. I'll go back and check everything with those suspicions in mind. Many thanks, Ron...
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By Pete 55Tbird - 12 Years Ago
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Hi, when your car is not starting as it should. With the engine OFF, take off the air cleaner and check that the accelerator pump is in fact pumping gas into the carb.
This will allow you to eliminate the fuel supply system as the problem. I have no experience with Edelbrock carbs but that was a very common fault with Rochester 4BBL carbs. No fuel in the fuel bowl after a short period of time. Pete
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By Macs1964F100 - 12 Years Ago
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I have a 292 with a 2100 and manual choke and I am still learning how to get to run cold. I am in South Texas so it is not a long term isssue. 2 weeks ago it was 45 degrees, I left a 65 degree garage and when the motor cooled down a few blocks down the road she died. It took 45 minute to get going. Parked her outside last week (50 degrees) and she started with the choke and then died two blocks away. I adjusted the valves and noticed the choke was completely closing when it was full on. Now I am pulling the choke 3/4 and it has the 3/8 gap specified. That is working better but still do not trust her enough to bring my small childern with me on a cold day.
Runs strong on when she warm. I changed the accelorator pump setting but still get a stumble until she is completely warm.
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By Talkwrench - 12 Years Ago
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Might be a little of the nature of the beast. When I was running the 600 Holley never had a problem with starting only if left for weeks at a time, when I went to the 465 it now only goes a few days. I figure its because it has the vent hole on the bowl and it evaporates.
Choke may not be correctly set? Maybe if the float level is not right ? etc etc.
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By kevink1955 - 12 Years Ago
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Mine has a 390 cfm holly and starts with no problem cold or hot, the only time I have to crank it longer is if it sits for 4 months or more. Then it need to crank till the fuel pump refills the carb. I would not buy into the "they all start hard when cold" thing
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By Joe 5bird7 - 12 Years Ago
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I have a 57 t-bird with a 600cfm edlebrock (electric choke) and it always starts right up and runs smooth----much better than it ever did with the Holley that was on it. The only time it fails to start immediately is when it has sat for a couple weeks or more and even then it starts well, just takes a few more cranks/revolutions. Interestingly, all settings on the carb are what they were out of the box. I played with it some when I first installed it, but ended up with the factory settings and there it's stayed. So, from my perspective the y-block engine is not the problem nor is the Edlebrock.
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By ronsplace - 12 Years Ago
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Pete: checked that and the accelerator pump is working as it should. Kevin said he has no starting problems, hot or cold, with a 390cfm Holley. Wonder if my 600cfm Edelbrock is too "big" for the 312? Doesn't seem likely,though. And don't think it would explain my starting problems. Ron
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By ronsplace - 12 Years Ago
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Joe: I agree with you that the problem is not inherent with the Y-block. Ford would have had a huge recall problem on their hands if it was (did they do recalls back then? Probably not) and it would be common knowledge by now. I think the problem has to do with vacuum/fuel leaks somewhere between the tank and the carb as discussed above. I hope we get more people weighing in on the topic, though, because I'm going to try all the suggestions and when I eventually solve the problem I'll post it here. Ron
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By Ted - 12 Years Ago
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It's possible that one or more of the anti-siphon holes in the carburetor fuel boosters or discharge nozzles are not venting which in turn is allowing fuel to siphon out of the bowl or bowls when the carb sits. I'd have to look at the Edelbrock carb but I suspect there are four of these anti-siphon holes and any one of them being stopped up or not being properly drilled from the factory can cause the hard starting problem to which you refer.
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By charliemccraney - 12 Years Ago
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The tune and overall condition is important. Bad tune and/or bad condition equals difficult starts, among other things. I don't even use the choke in the winter, even when it gets into the 20s. Two pumps of the gas and it fires right up.
I wouldn't expect a problem with the fuel supply. The carburetor bowl is clearly getting fuel. Otherwise it wouldn't start or run at all. If you're not having issues at cruise, where it will want more fuel, then it just doesn't seem likely. However, an easy way to eliminate the entire fuel system is to use a remote fuel supply, or carefully, with a funnel and length of hose which goes directly to the carburetor. With this you bypass the tank, pump, filter, and all plumbing in between. If it still does not start, you know the fuel supply is not the problem.
I'd verify that the accelerator pump is working sufficiently, that the ignition is working properly, that there are no vacuum leaks, and compression is good. Check the ignition while you are having the problem. It will not help you at all to get it running and then check. An easy way to do that is to have a buddy crank the car while you use a timing light to watch for the flash, which indicates a spark. Or you can pull a plug to look at the color of the spark, which really is best.
So far, the no start problems I've experienced, the ignition was the main cause. There may be other things wrong but usually if fuel gets into the intake and the ignition is working, it's going to do something. It may not roar to life but it will at least sputter or try to start, something.
Another thing, '56 car with a '57 engine, is the distributor from the '56 or '57?
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By 312T85Bird - 12 Years Ago
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I am with you that they don't all start when cold is bogus. In 1963 I got the first of my 13 Fords of 1956 and they all started good cold in these Wisconsin Winters and they lived outside in the cold. My unrestored '57 Bird with the 465 Holley starts first 1/2 turn unless I let it sit a month or so and then I can crank until fuel comes up or just shoot a short blast of carb cleaner (NOT STARTING FLUID) into the carb and it fires right up. There is a reason that Old School Diehards Drove FORDS and that was because you could always depend on them in the Cold Winter Months!!
Tom
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By Daniel Jessup - 12 Years Ago
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I have owned a number of Y block powered cars and trucks over the past 20 plus years. In that time frame, every carb from the original teapot, Holley 4 barrel, Edelbrock, 2100 and 2300 two barrels, etc. I only ever had one issue with hard starting and that was with one of the 2100's - power valve problem. Other than that on my daily drivers, or even my engines that have sat for a while, it was always an issue with spark to the plugs. The old Bendix starters DRAIN THE JUICE from your ignition when you are cranking - especially those first few revs. Check your battery out as well. Serious cold cranking amps and plenty of juice makes a powerful difference. I have had an issue at times with hard starting but that was because the ignition was not getting enough voltage/amperage.
the Y block is not a "cold start" engine lol
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By 312T85Bird - 12 Years Ago
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The only one that I had a problem with was the 345 horse 312 from my Stock car that I shoved into a '54 Country Squire wagon and had a R-3310-AAS Holley 780 on and still the 6 volt battery and system. I drilled a 1/8 inch hole in the air cleaner and would shoot a blast of "Juice" into the carb before I hit the key and she fired right off, only problem as an after thought is that when it fired the REVs shot up before it settled down and one day the fan blade gave up the Ghost and a blade exited the hood. I think that many of us did some dumb things when we were young, I know that I will admit to a few.
Tom
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By speedpro56 - 12 Years Ago
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All of my Ys start faster than our new injected cars on a cold morning and they start quick as well.
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By kevink1955 - 12 Years Ago
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speedpro56 (12/5/2013)
All of my Ys start faster than our new injected cars on a cold morning and they start quick as well.
You are not kidding, I once had a buick V6 with SFI. It always cranked a long time before it fired, come to find out it took 3 revolutons before the computer would fire the plugs and fuel injectors. The 3 revs were needed for the computer to figure out engine position via the crank and cam sensors so it could fire at TDC.
Daniel may be on to something, does the engine crank fast or does it seem to drag. Nothing better than a good starter and a high CCA battery to get a Y started.
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By ronsplace - 12 Years Ago
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Kevin: No drag at all when trying to start. What's a good brand/model starter for the Y block in case I ever need one? Thanks, Ron
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By kevink1955 - 12 Years Ago
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I have always had the stock ford starter on my 56 (12 volt) and never had a problem with it, just needs a battery with high CCA and good size (larger the better) cables.
Lots of guys use the new Mini Starters, they are much easer to install but I would miss the Y Block starter sound
That sound is unique to the old type starters and is part of the Y's charm, mini starters sound like a toyota on streiods.
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By 312T85Bird - 12 Years Ago
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Not sure where you are, But Kraemer/Ridge Co. is a Small Old Time Parts house in Appleton, Wisconsin that will ship or drop ship a Quality rebuilt. Personally I would not buy any from NAPA unless you like changing your starter. Kraemer is at (920) 739-3131
Tom
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By ronsplace - 12 Years Ago
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Thanks, Tom. I'm in So. Cal. but wouldn't hesitate to have a quality piece shipped to me from out of state. Ron...
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