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2" EXHAUST OK ?!?!?!?

Posted By Apache 17 Years Ago
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ejstith
Posted 17 Years Ago
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Doug T (6/6/2008)
I think the reason people diss glass packs is that most flow data shows they don't flow as well as Flowmasters or Dynomax. When I was thinking about it I looked at the flow numbers for various mufflers and found the baffle type mufflers flowed better. Some glass pack blanks have the same dia internal pipe and have larger or smaller nipples on each end for different applications.In addition to the internal pipe being small, the perforationfor the glass is punched into the pipe giving a very rough flow path hindering flow even more.



That said do what you like, it is your car!And remember that this only becomes interesting if you are racing against an otherwise equal car. It is unlikely that part throttle operation would be hurt and that ismost of the time.




I just put duals on my stock '56. They used a donut gasket at the manifold and downpipe instead of one of those flat ones. All of the pipe are 2". He had some Magna Flow mufflers some guy ordered and never came to get. They had the right "in & out" but they were 2 1/4". He just expanded the pipe and welded them in. Although they are straight through they don't make much noise. On the box it said they improved flow by 157%. Didn't much matter to me but that's what is said with all kinds of graphs etc. Anyway I like 'em. ...

Doing Fords for 45 years. '56 Customline Victoria

E.J. in Havana FL
Ted
Posted 17 Years Ago
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Thank you Frank and Doug for helping out on this one.  That covers everything and more that I would have brought up.

Lorena, Texas (South of Waco)


pegleg
Posted 17 Years Ago
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And it's also why we run cams without much overlap on the street.

Frank/Rebop

Bristol, In ( by Elkhart) 


Doug T
Posted 17 Years Ago
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Expanding a little on what Frank and Ted have said it is helpful to define "back pressure" and then discuss the static and dynamic issues involved.

Back pressure is the pressure in exhaust manifold caused by the worst flow restriction which is usually the muffler.  As the piston accends the cylinder and the exhaust valve is open stuff will flow out of the ex port as long as the pressure in the cylinder is higher than the back pressure in the exhaust manifold.  This is the simplest view of the situation and might be called the static case.  It is realistic for mild street engines with stock or nearly stock exhaust components that don't rev too high.  The point here is that there is very little chance that the stock type system will ever develop negative pressure, but reducing the positive pressure will usually help power and milage.

However cars with open or closed headers tuned to length can easily develop negative pressure under the exhaust valve. This happens on purpose so that the intake and exhaust gases will develop speed and therefore inertia which will allow the cylinder to be "packed" with a denser mixture of fuel/air. The exhaust system aids this packing by removing the spent exhaust gases faster and in the process speeding the intake flow, increasing its inertia. A long overlap cam helps this at the right speed. In addition a well designed set of headers will send a reverse pulse back up the pipe just as the ex valve is closing ramming some good mixture back into the cylinder.  All this is intended to take place at WOT where the goal is the worst milage possible which is also most power!

This slippage of air/fuel mix into the exhaust is not what is needed for good milage at part throttle operation. The design of the system to reduce the slippage into the exhaust is what gives higher back pressure.

Doug T

The Highlands, Louisville, Ky.


pegleg
Posted 17 Years Ago
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Dan,

      Overly large has more to do with velocity than "Back Pressure". You guys are trying to make me think, and I resent it! If the velocity in the pipe is too slow, especially headers, there will be no scavenging effect at lower RPM. Read Phillip Smith, "The Scientific design of intake and exhaust systems"  The effects of pipe diameter are lessened by mufflers and the bends required to fit the exhaust system into the car. While back pressure will affect jetting, it mostly can be said that it only hurts when you over scavenge a cylinder, doesn't often happen with mufflers.

 

Frank/Rebop

Bristol, In ( by Elkhart) 


Ol Ford Guy
Posted 17 Years Ago
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FWIW, If I were going with Red's Headers, I'd go with the the dual tubes.  A lot of the 5.0 boys found out they lost a little low end torque and performance with too large of an exhaust system on a stock application.

Paul J. - '57 E Code
DANIEL TINDER
Posted 17 Years Ago
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Ted,



Just to clarify, by "overly large" you mean having too little back pressure? Can I assume a small diameter straight pipe would be equal in this respect to a large diameter pipe with a restrictive muffler, if total restriction was the same?

6 VOLTS/POS. GRD. NW INDIANA
Ted
Posted 17 Years Ago
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charliemccraney (6/7/2008)
Ted, Can you go into a little more detail on back pressure.  In my case the 2 1/2" exhaust along with several other performance upgrades improved my highway economy by about 1mpg. It was a whopping 13.5 the last time I checked - during my attempt to make it to Columbus last year. I haven't checked city economy but I guarantee it sucks.

Simplified, an overly large exhaust system can promote too much scavenging at the lower rpms which will allow raw fuel to be drawn into the exhaust system instead of permitting it to go through the combustion process and be burned where it can make additional power with a reduced throttle opening.  The camshaft is a large player in all this and the reduction of the lobe centerline along with an increase in intake duration automatically puts the engine in a position to ‘waste’ more fuel at the lower rpms especially when done in conjunction with an increase in exhaust system sizing.  Backpressure in this instance helps to keep the raw fuel in the cylinder rather than letting it be pulled into the exhaust system prematurely.  Selecting the ideal exhaust system is difficult in that it becomes a compromise between peak fuel efficiency and peak performance.  A given exhaust size for any combination will unvariably have it’s own sweet spot for peak efficiency but any rpm range above or below this will be out of the ideal rpm range for fuel economy.

 

It’s obviously more complicated than this but this gets the basic jist across.

Lorena, Texas (South of Waco)


charliemccraney
Posted 17 Years Ago
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Ted, Can you go into a little more detail on back pressure. It seams that the opinions about it are split about 50/50. Some say you need it others say you don't want it. Most people I hear these opinions from have no real experience with it - They're just re-stating what they've heard. My guess is that it depends on some component or components of the engine.

In my case the 2 1/2" exhaust along with several other performance upgrades improved my highway economy by about 1mpg. It was a whopping 13.5 the last time I checked - during my attempt to make it to Columbus last year. I haven't checked city economy but I guarantee it sucks.



Lawrenceville, GA
55Birdman
Posted 17 Years Ago
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I used 22" smittys because of the space under my bird. That size gave me some room to get it installed properly. All I can say is it sounds great.  Smittys are 2" on both ends so it was easy to fit to my pipes. It is a good muffler. only about 25.00 each

55Birdman Smile  Hickory NC


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