Does anyone have experience with compressed natural gas (propane?) conversions? A long while back I used to smog some Ford tow trucks that were gasoline/natural gas capable. Seems the engines didn't last as long due to cylinder wear but were always extremely clean when torn down for rebuilds, the power was down and mileage wasn't as good as gasoline. Newer EFI systems are not as adaptable to natural gas, but older carbed cars are fairly simple as I remember it.

57 Black Tbird 312/auto

In 77 I installed a system on my 3/4 ton ford to reduce fuel cost and increase range.  My recolection is that I experienced about a 10% power loss and maybe a 5% milage loss.  Big block fords in those days didn't get great milage anyway.  Understand it is not unusual to start newly built motors on propane to speed the break in process but I have no personal experience doing so.

Not sure of the price of propane today but back then you avoided so of the taxes and the fuel itself was cheaper.

Jack

A few years ago our local car club toured the maintenance facility at the local university.  They were required to convert about half their fleet of vehicles to Liquified Natural Gas.  In addition to all the modifications to the car, they also had to install a compressor system in the shop to liquify the gas, a rather complicated and costly system.  When it was all said and done, they had to maintain the original gasoline system in vehicles that were used out ot town, because finding LNG on the road was nearly impossible, so they had to switch back to gasoline to get home.  I'm not sure they are using LNG any more. 

John - "The Hoosier Hurricane"

The company I work for has used CNG (compressed natural gas) for years.  Most of our CNG vehicles are bi-fuel meaning they can run on CNG or switch over to gasoline when the tanks get low.  We have bought several dedicated CNG vehicles over the years but I don't think any one builds one now.  For the most part you can't tell the difference in drivablilty except for a slight power loss and limited range.  A half ton pick up with 4 tanks in the bed is good for around 125-150 miles.  The CNG is very clean burning with virtually zero emissions and you never have to change spark plugs.  The biggest issue is with refueling the vehicles.  We have a fueling station but there are not any others close.  I understand that there are small residential use stations that can refuel the tanks overnight but most citys have codes against their use.   Most of the guys driving our CNG trucks have to fuel up every day or risk running out. Sorry about being so long winded, just happen to have a little experience with CNG.

Later,

Timbo

Down here alot of folks heat with propane including myself. It cost almost as much as gasoline and I can't see any advantage to using it now. Back in the fifties my Grandpa had a 600 ford tractor that was converted to propane and it performed well, just smelled like a rotten egg when it was running.

Glen Henderson



Freedom is not Free

Letohatchee, AL

This is what got me interested but read somewhere the company has gone out of business:



Phill home refueling appliance



http://www.wisegasinc.com/wg-phill.htm



After reading the specs and the time it takes to do a refill, it doesn't seem realistic. The other drawback is that the tanks need to be mounted externally due the danger of slow leaks possible in a confined non-ventilated space. I remember an incident in my neighborhood back in high school, there is a pressure relief valve that blows off gas if the tank gets overheated. The guy down the street had a 59 Pontiac with a big tank mounted in the trunk. He was working on the car in the garage and somehow the car caught fire. He tried to get control of it himself and the garage started to catch so he pushed the car out into the driveway. The trunk lid was open and as he ran around the back of the car the relief valve opened and shot a blow-torch like flame about 40-50 feet long catching him in the chest as he ran by. By the time the fire department showed up the car was fully engulfed and was spontaneously shooting off blasts of flame that scorched the paint on the garage door across the street. The area had to be cordoned off and they waited for hours to be sure the fire was out. He healed up okay.



At the Ford dealer I worked at we had some prototype CNG/Gasoline F150's that were given to Granite Construction in about 1999 or so. Six cylinder motors with EFI/EEC and we could never get them to automatically switch fuels.



With all the concern about fuels and natural gas you would think more real time effort would have been put to this idea. For use as an alternative fuel for private everyday vehicles, it doesn't look practical to me. Using propane as a power adder on diesels; Ford Powerstrokes makes some awesome horsepower. Oh well, just an idea.



Mark




57 Black Tbird 312/auto

Minneapolis Moline pushed Propane for use in farm tractors for years.The old rule of thumb was 2 gal of diesel/3 gal of gasoline/4 gal of propane per hour on the same size of tractor. I have a MM 670 Super with over 6000 hours on it that runs as new. As far as I know propane tractors outlast gasoline tractors almost 2 to one as far as hours before needing overhaul. Good clean fuel. Need at least 10 to one compression ratio to get the best out of it. My cousin pulls a turbo charged MM propane tractor and does quite well in the super farm class. The main problem on a vehicle is fill ups away from home. CNG would be worse. CNG has higher energy (BTU's/gal) than propane. MM Irrigation engines set up for natural gas used higher compression ratios and had higher HP ratings than comprable propane engines.

Google propane or natural gas conversions there is information out there.

Just as an aside to your post,I know of propane powered MM engines on irrigation pumps that have running about 3-6 months a year at full throttle every year since back in the thirties with virtually no maintainance.I have a friend that bought a new 56 Ford with a 292 that he put on propane after it was broken in.The last I knew,a few years ago,that car was still running perfectly with over 400,000 miles on it..and the engine has never been touched.

 

Paul,

Boonville,MO

I always thought if was the other way around, because the orifices or jets if you will, on a propane water heater are smaller than on a natural gas water heater.

  Dennis in Lititz PA

Do not know about the jet sizes, possibly it has to do with the delivery pressure (or lack of).