Profile Picture

Total Seal Gap Question

Posted By grovedawg 14 Years Ago
You don't have permission to rate!
Author
Message
grovedawg
Posted 14 Years Ago
View Quick Profile
Supercharged

Supercharged (256 reputation)Supercharged (256 reputation)Supercharged (256 reputation)Supercharged (256 reputation)Supercharged (256 reputation)Supercharged (256 reputation)Supercharged (256 reputation)Supercharged (256 reputation)Supercharged (256 reputation)

Group: Forum Members
Last Active: 13 Years Ago
Posts: 246, Visits: 622
I'm still a newb and would rather check before I assume I'm right and screw it up. I'm about to file my Total Seal Moly Rings and want to dbl check the recommended gaps. For street applications they recommend filling a number equivalent to the bore x .0045" top ring. Second ring equivalent to bore x .0035". My bore is 3.830". Top ring would be gapped to .016", and the second ring gap would be .013". I know a tighter gap creates a better seal and can add a few horses. Should I stay exact to their specs? Maybe run a skosh tighter? I'm deferring to everyone here who has actual experience building motors, and specifically y blocks. Thanks, Ryan

Heber City, UT (15 mins outside of Park City- basically it's in the mountains)

55 Effie
charliemccraney
Posted 14 Years Ago
View Quick Profile
Supercharged

Supercharged (9.8K reputation)Supercharged (9.8K reputation)Supercharged (9.8K reputation)Supercharged (9.8K reputation)Supercharged (9.8K reputation)Supercharged (9.8K reputation)Supercharged (9.8K reputation)Supercharged (9.8K reputation)Supercharged (9.8K reputation)

Group: Moderators
Last Active: 5 hours ago
Posts: 6.1K, Visits: 442.6K
If anything, I'd err on the loose side. You can lose a lot if they're too tight but you won't lose a whole lot if they're a hair looser than they should be.

Go by their recommendation, they developed them and know how they work, and go slow until you develop a "feel." You can remove too much material quickly.


Lawrenceville, GA
grovedawg
Posted 14 Years Ago
View Quick Profile
Supercharged

Supercharged (256 reputation)Supercharged (256 reputation)Supercharged (256 reputation)Supercharged (256 reputation)Supercharged (256 reputation)Supercharged (256 reputation)Supercharged (256 reputation)Supercharged (256 reputation)Supercharged (256 reputation)

Group: Forum Members
Last Active: 13 Years Ago
Posts: 246, Visits: 622
Thanks Charlie. I've filled rings once before and I'm gonna be very patient with the rings cause she's my baby. Smile

Heber City, UT (15 mins outside of Park City- basically it's in the mountains)

55 Effie
Ted
Posted 14 Years Ago
View Quick Profile
Co-Administrator

Co-Administrator (13.3K reputation)Co-Administrator (13.3K reputation)Co-Administrator (13.3K reputation)Co-Administrator (13.3K reputation)Co-Administrator (13.3K reputation)Co-Administrator (13.3K reputation)Co-Administrator (13.3K reputation)Co-Administrator (13.3K reputation)Co-Administrator (13.3K reputation)

Group: Administrators
Last Active: 5 hours ago
Posts: 7.4K, Visits: 205.7K

Charlie is spot on.  The ring manufacturers recommendations are the minimum values.  Tightening up on those recommendations is taking risks with ring end gaps that can butt together which in turn score the cylinder walls or break the piston lands.  The old school of thought was for ring expansion on both rings being such that the ring gaps would be minimal without actually butting ends.  Because the top ring runs hotter, it needs more required gap during the intial build than the cooler running second ring.

 

But the thought process on ring gaps has changed dramatically in the last twenty years.  Because the top ring does the majority of the sealing and the 2nd ring is more for oil control, the second ring gap can be set as large or larger than the top ring gap.  The thought process on this is for the second ring gap to be large enough to actually bleed off some of the pressure that occurs between the two compression rings which would otherwise unseat the rings at maximum pressure.  This was originally validated through dyno testing by Sealed Power which showed that additional power is made by increasing the second ring gaps.

 

Along these same lines, some of the high performance pistons are available with an expansion groove between the two compression rings.  This along with wider spaced rings allows additional room for ‘gas’ expansion and similarly prevents the rings from unseating due to pressure increases between the two compression rings.

 

Here’s a link to a past thread showing a picture of a Keith Black hypereutectic piston with the ‘expansion groove’ between the first and second rings.

http://www.y-blocksforever.com/forums/Topic9016-3-2.aspx

Lorena, Texas (South of Waco)


grovedawg
Posted 14 Years Ago
View Quick Profile
Supercharged

Supercharged (256 reputation)Supercharged (256 reputation)Supercharged (256 reputation)Supercharged (256 reputation)Supercharged (256 reputation)Supercharged (256 reputation)Supercharged (256 reputation)Supercharged (256 reputation)Supercharged (256 reputation)

Group: Forum Members
Last Active: 13 Years Ago
Posts: 246, Visits: 622
Thanks Ted. I actually just got of the phone with my machinist today and he said the same thing. The manufacturers recommendations are the minimum, and to err on the tight side could lead to drastic cylinder wall damage. So, I think I'm going to aim for a nice .0165" of an inch on the top, and .013" on the second.

Heber City, UT (15 mins outside of Park City- basically it's in the mountains)

55 Effie


Reading This Topic


Site Meter