I can look down and see the secondary throttle plates are closed and working properly. I didn't take them out but loosen them up to fine tune them. I spent a lot of time adjusting them with the light to get the tolerance near zero. Next week I'm going to do a vacuum test to see where the problem is before taking anything apart. If it's the carb spacers I'll order new ones. You guys have been great. Happy Easter, Philip in Ohio   

Were the throttle blades removed from the shafts during the rebuild?  Those can be very touchy when reinstalling them in order to get them all seated in a fully closed position.  If you can see any light at all with the throttles fully closed, then the blade adjustments on the shafts will need to be revisited.

Lorena, Texas (South of Waco)

Good morning, I have the product service manual and have the carbs set up as specified. I put new gaskets under the carbs. top and bottom, but used the old spacers that were on the car from the past. This may be the problem. I can't believe there is a problem with the carbs as I was real picky rebuilding them. I need to find more info on the carb spacers first and proceed through the list of potential items you gave me. At the top of my list is to check for the vacuum leak with the torch and rubber hose or borrow the smoke machine again. The problem is so bad it should be easy to find. Thanks again for all the help. Philip in Ohio  

I'm STILL scratching my head on your problem.  This is a long shot, but was raised some time ago by Oldmics.  Something is giving you serious air to support 2,200 rpm.  Look at these directions and check your linkage before tearing anything else down.

Hope this helps. 
_______________________

Here are the instructions from the 1957 National Service Data book.  Also check the TSB (product service letters) book on page 140. It pretty much spells out the same information.

The specific PSL is P 348.

Oldmics

NoShortcuts
a.k.a. Charlie Brown
near Syracuse, New York

Don't think the carb spacers are right.  Check them and know that they are right.  Pull the carbs and make sure the spacers and gaskets are sealing properly against the intake and carburetors.  Also make sure that the spacers are not causing the throttle plates to stick open somehow.
It sounds like you rebuilt the carbs in an attempt to fix the 1000rpm idle problem and now it idles at 2200.  If everything else is the same, then something you did during rebuild may have caused it to pick up an additional 1200rpm.  Revise your rebuild.  Can you run one carb at a time to se if you can track it to one carb or the other, or simply to get it running right with one carb and then moving on to the next?

I think the lens of your camera is distorting the image and making things look crooked.



Lawrenceville, GA

  From the replies it seams pretty obvious it has to be a vacuum leak. I borrowed a smoke machine to get my first set of carbs below 1000 RPM's and couldn't find any problems. This set I thought I'd try a small propane bottle with a rubber hose on the end to check all the gaskets. Using oil in a pump can should also work but might be a little messy. Your check list was good:
1- In the rebuild I paid special attention all the throttle plates worked freely and were as tight as possible. Is it possible to check them with the carb assembled?
2- I think the carb spacers are right. I used the same ones that were under the other set of carbs but I couldn't get those under 1000 RPM.
3- Distributor line is connected.
4- The front distributor port is plugged.
5- No spark advance on the E carbs.
6- I didn't seem to have a problem with the gaskets on the secondary diaphragm units.
7- I used a rubber hose to connect the carb bases, which are tight.
   The car doesn't have power brakes but I better check the wiper hose under the dash. The fuel/vacuum pump was rebuilt and shouldn't be a problem. Does the propane rubber hose procedure seem like a good way to check for the vacuum leak as this has to be my way forward. Thanks for all the potential items to look at as this was very helpful.
    The front air cleaner stud on the first picture sure looks crooked, but it must be the picture angle. I'm sending a picture of the other side for possible problems. It may be awhile but I'll let you know what I found out. Thanks again, Philip in Ohio 

Don't I recall a gasket for the vacuum secondary diaphragm housing where it mounts on the Holley 4000 carburetor base that can be incorrectly positioned because of it having an extra hole or it being a gasket that can be reversed for mounting, but will not work correctly if incorrectly positioned???

Still scratching my head on your LARGE vacuum leak!


NoShortcuts
a.k.a. Charlie Brown
near Syracuse, New York

Hmmmm... As Charlie says, 2200 rpm is sky high.  You've got to have a BIG air leak somewhere to feed that engine speed.  Be careful in using that starter fluid!

I've used standard viscosity engine oil applied with a pump oil can around the base of carbs as a way to find where air is getting into the system.  IF the oil temporarily seals the leakage, the idle speed drops.  Check for other potential vacuum leaks to the engine including power brake connections to the intake manifold and the line to the double diaphragm fuel pump.  A faulty vacuum booster diaphragm on either of these components would show as a vacuum leak.  Potentially, you could have more than one vacuum leak source working together to give you this high an idle speed.   

Also check...
- all throttle plates fully closed (seated)... right?
- with the 'E' 'Bird set-up, you've got 1/8 inch aluminum spacers in a gasket sandwich under the carbs on the aluminum intake manifold... right?
- distributor vacuum line connected from the rear carburetor to the distributor advance chamber... right?
- distributor vacuum advance take-off on the front carb blocked off with a plug... right?
- No spark control valves on your 'E' carbs... right?  (Spark control valves on other Holley 4000 carbs have a diaphragm in them that can leak)
- Vacuum control secondary diaphragm units are gasket-ed to the carburetor aluminum bases... right?
- Neoprene hose connecting the take-off from the carb bases for the secondary vacuum signal balance tube... right?

OUCH!  Scratching my head for other ideas...


NoShortcuts
a.k.a. Charlie Brown
near Syracuse, New York

If it will not idle lower than 2200, then it is getting air somewhere.  It simply won't idle that high, otherwise.  How well does a smoke machine work for areas which are difficult to see, like under the intake, or behind the carburetors?  I would check again using starting fluid, where you will notice a change in the way the engine runs if a leak is found.  If no leaks are found, maybe the primary or secondary throttle plates are opened farther than they should be for some reason.



Lawrenceville, GA

I recently installed my rebuilt carbs and started the engine. After priming the carbs with an electric fuel pump the engine turned over 3 times and started right up. the problem is the tack went up to 2200 RPM's and that's as low as I can get it to idle. When installing the carbs I synchronized and checked the linkage making sure the fast idle cam was not the problem. I had a small fuel leak under the needle seat plug and didn't use the springs because I tapped and threaded the seats. I tried adjusting the idle adjusting needles  which did nothing. With all the help I received from this site and a video I felt confident the rebuild went well. I used a smoke machine from snap on to check for vacuum leaks trying to get my previous carb setup down to 1000 RPM's and this set is worse. Check the link of the rebuilt 1434 carbs. I'm stumped and any ideas will be appreciated. Philip in Ohio