i was asking about tips and tricks on seating rings that's why i specifically chose that title for this thread not "my car smokes, got any ideas?", however, its no big deal. as i said i appreciate the help, and i really appreciate the effort.



i don't have a cylinder mic so i was not able to measure much i checked for taper via installing an old ring and measuring ends gap in several places, up and down the cylinder. it was not tapered from what i could tell.





i used a tool to install the rings but it was not that beast you have pictured up there. it lookes like a cheap pair of pliers that had cups on the end of it.

I’ll add that the oil ring expanders can be inadvertently overlapped during installation which can also create some smoking issues that will not resolve themselves until torn back down and corrected.  Removing the spark plugs and examining each in detail may give an idea if there are individual cylinders contributing more than others to the smoking issue as an alternative to an overall ring seating problem.

 

And for installing the compression rings, a tool that spreads the rings is desirable versus putting the rings on by twisting them on by hand.  I can typically tell on rebuilds if the rings were installed with a ring installation tool or by hand by simply looking at the wear pattern on the rings.  Here’s some pics of a piston ring installation tool.

 

Lorena, Texas (South of Waco)

You asked for tips tricks or ideas. That's what the experienced folks here gave you. It all may not be what you want to hear but it is what you asked for.



At this point all you can do is see if the rings have yet to seat. If things don't improve soon, you will have to tear it down again and find out why.

One thing that comes to mind I have not yet seen mentioned. Perhaps it's just time for an overbore. Did you measure the piston and bore, check for taper and out of round?


Lawrenceville, GA

yeah, i really was not trying to offend anyone. that's why i spent 2 paragraphs trying to explain i wasn't trying to be offensive with the one liner...



however this thread is over a week of people telling me its my heads when from the first post i have explained countless times, countless ways that its far more likely that its the rings. but whatever, i guess some people are not satisfied till the whole engine is rebuilt, while that may be preferable, its not feasible in my situation. so one step at a time and careful diag before i throw parts at the thing.



The weather cleaned up today so tomorrow I'm going to do my load runs. I'll let you know how it goes. then as i said if it still smokes I'll be more than willing to hear theories about my heads.

    I've been doing this for about 50 years, and do have a bit of experience with Y-blocks. As Dave said, oil rings CAN be installed incorrectly by twisting them too far, or more commonly using a standard sized ring in an overbored cylinder. I am not suggesting You throw money at the problem, only recommending that you might look at certain areas. You seem positive that the heads aren't the problem, and that could be right. However, many of the symptoms you quote indicate smoking in high vacuum situations, idling, deceleration and cruising. Most often this will be caused by bad intake valve seals or possibly a leaking intake gasket. This armchair machanic has said all I'm going to on this.

Frank/Rebop

Bristol, In ( by Elkhart) 

I can vouch.  I just got a set of Hastings moly rings.  The first (shiny) ring is barrel faced and has no markings and no inside bevel.

The second ring is cast iron with a dot on top and bevel inside.

I've never known an oil ring to have orientation.
As I posted, your rings rotate.  If you end-gapped correctly, and didn't twist the rings getting them on, you should be good.  A ring too tight will break and the pieces can cause scuffing which ruins your piston-to-cylinder seal and promotes oil bypass.

From this armchair, I will still go with; you should have done a valve job including new seals.

Check out my 292 heads:

simplyconnected's engine rebuild (still in progress)  - Dave

Royal Oak, Michigan (Four miles north of Detroit, and 12 miles NORTH of Windsor, Canada).  That's right, we're north of Canada.

Ford 292 Y-Block major overhaul by simplyconnected

Yes, there were no markings on the oil rings according to the box if there is no markings it is non directional. I got 16 identical thin rings to go above and below the oil ring. The only directions were that the oil ring be installed first and the thin ones be placed to hold the ring into the piston, as you discribed.

Yes, there were no markings on the oil rings according to the box if there is no markings it is non directional. I got 16 identical thin rings to go above and below the oil ring. The only directions were that the oil ring be installed first and the thin ones be placed to hold the ring into the piston, as you discribed.

Are you sure about that 1st ring? All 3 usually have some direction or order in which they are installed.



The thin oil rings usually have a ledge to hold the middle piece away from the cylinder wall.


Lawrenceville, GA

it doesn't smoke on start up.



it smokes a little bit from the crankcase, road draft, oil filler dipstick tube, which most likely points to RINGS. the smoke would have to get past the valve seats not be sucked back into the cylinder by the intake or pushed out the exhaust and flow through a second seal the, valve guides, in order for the oil being put into the cylinder by valve guides to cause smoke in the crank case, I'm not saying its imposable but common sense and critical thinking would say that it is improbable.



It smokes after its up to operating temp it smokes more at a stop light after a small load (stop and go driving) and smokes the most when i cruise at highway speeds. (get up to speed and let off the gas) the rings are not quite seated yet (as evident by the lower compression numbers.) there is too much oil in the cylinder as i create the lean condition in the cylinder by closing up the carb the cylinder temperatures increase and the only fuel left in the cylinder is the oil left by the improperly seated rings. thus a nice cloud of blue smoke. if i get back on the throttle just a little bit, cylinder temps drop and there is more gas in the cylinder, smoking clears up or stops.



the final piece of the puzzle, is the fact that the smoking has slowly begun to clear up as I've driven it. because of my timing goof i have not been able to do the 40-75MPH load runs to finalize the seating. I've done maybe 3 since i did the ring job, just running on ramps. from point A to point B. i need a sunny day to take it and do the load runs to get them to seat.



BTW how could you improperly install the oil rings? if the top and bottom keeper rings are in the right spot, the middle expander ring is non directional. actually the only directional ring in my hastings kit was the second compression ring, which i checked, no joke, 4-5 times before i installed each piston.



I know its hard to diag things over the internet, and really, i appreciate the help, but wouldn't it make sense to insure the rings are seated before i go blow another couple hundred dollars (actually closer to a grand, not to mention my time) because a couple guys on a internet forum who have never seen my car nor the way it smokes in person, have a hunch that its my heads? please don't take that the wrong way, as i say i appreciate that you are willing allow me to bounce ideas off this board and give me feed back, but really its getting a little ridiculous to assume its my heads and come up with every argument you can think of to support your theory, when you have no hands on experience with the vehicle you are trying to diagnose.



its easy to be an armchair mechanic and throw parts at a problem when its not your time money and effort going into it.



let me satisfy my theory that the rings have not set, once i do that if it still smokes I'll be right back on here to hear your theories about my heads.