Ok guys, now Im really stumped.  Here goes...

Car is a 56 sunliner.  Restored about 10 years ago.

Yesterday drove the car to work, then to lunch, all was fine.  Got back in the car after lunch, and it started right up just fine.  I heard a faint whirring sound, but I figured it was the scrub vette I was parked next to, so I just drove away.  About 4 miles into the trip, still heard whirring, and started to smell a faint burning electric smell.  I chalked the smell up to the scrub suburban next to me at the light (yes, I typically live in denial - makes me happier).

Got back to work, and went to shut car off, and it would not stop.  By now the wirring was louder, and the smell was much stronger.  Opened the hood, and the starter was smoking.  Turns out the starter never shut off.  I quickly disconnected the neg batt cable, and it stopped.  I tried touching the cable to the battery and the starter tried to turn over (key out of car) so I unhooked it again.  Made sure no fire, and called AAA. 

Car was flatbedded home a few hours later, carefully unloaded, and when i reconnected the battery, the starter didnt try to turn over.  Tried the key, and it tries to crank, but the starter is obviously cooked, so it cant really do much.

Car has - new battery, new alternator (GM 1 wire, properly connected), new starter solenoid, and replaced the ignistion switch about 4 years ago.  So what the H*ll is the problem?  All wiring appears to be in good shape (all new harnesses 10 years ago with frame off)

At first, I thought maybe the neutral safety switch (its a F/M), but no part of that is energized with key off.  Where should I look next??

Also, Im trying to get the old starter out.  I remember putting it together with the body off and thinking "man, what a pain this would be with the body on...hope I never have to do that....."  rats.   So the first question I have on that is how do I access the top most bolt?  Is it from the engine compartment side, or from the transmission side (accessed through hole in floor after pulling up carpet?)  Any tricks to get to the top bolt?  Car is on jack stands, as i dont have access to a lift.  Tricks?  HELP!!!!!

As much as i love this forum, I really wish someone who knew what they were doing lived close!

Thanks in advance for any and all help!!

Ron Grove

Wauconda, IL

Ron:

The top starter bolt is oriented the same as the other two.  I use a short 3/8 drive 1/2" socket, a 6 inch extension, and a ratchet.  Getting the socket on the head of the bolt is done by the braille method, you really can't see what you're doing.

Sounds like a starter solenoid problem to begin with.  If it was ignition switch related, putting the car in gear would have interrupted the circuit.

John - "The Hoosier Hurricane"

Ron! I cant help you with the removal but I think you have a problem with the solenoid.Once it starts the solenoid is no longer connecting the battery to the starter(working properly).Did you replace it after your previous trouble with the battery?.I just read your post-the reay was replaced.Maybe new one defective?

  

First off, the neutral safety switch wouldn't be the problem. I would suspect the ignition switch, wiring, starter solenoid or starter itself. I have found ignition switch failures by jiggling the start switch when the starter won't stop or tapping the starter solenoid if it sticks. I would highly recommend replacing the original boat-anchor starter with a light weight, aluminum, high-torque, two bolt mini-starter. Much easier to install/remove and it engages from the opposite direction of the old starter and can cure a worn ring gear problem. Here is a link to one but there may be others:



http://www.autoelec.com/html/ford_y_block_gear_reduction_st.html



I have used these on FE motors with headers with great success and will be replacing the one on my Tbird when the aluminum heads are ready to install.

57 Black Tbird 312/auto

Thanks for the response guys.  I appreciate it.

John, did you mean that the neutral switch would have interrupted it while putting it in gear, and not the ign switch?  Just asking, because I cant see how putting in gear would indicate the ign switch?

Yes, the solenoid is about a week old.  I replaced it because I had a similar issue, but stopped it prior to starter damage.  Thats what makes me think it isnt the solenoid again.

And yes, Ive debated switching to a different starter.  Im on the fence, since we show the car a lot, and have worked hard at keeping it stock, etc.....plus, I kind of like the sound of it (hows that for a stupid reason??!)... But MAN does that gear reduction unit look COOL....

Ron Grove

Wauconda, IL

Also John, would taking off the plug wire separator on the block help get access to the top bolt?  I cant ofr the life of me even get a hand up in there to feel for it...

Ron Grove

Wauconda, IL

Sounds like it could be ignition switch not completley returning to ign circuit after starting? particularly if you have replaced solenoid because of same problem earlier? Once the starter bolts are removed slide it forward and roll onto tie rod arm and lower control arm, then jiggle it out , remembering to pinch finger tips doing this.

  AussieBill            YYYY    Forever Y Block     YYYY

 Down Under, Australia

The problem is almost certainly once again your solenoid,

It is how the starter gets power.

If the neutral switch is working properly, ie you can only turn the engine over when in neutral the switch is OK. The solenoids are prone to sticking and if it did it would continue to provide power to the starter until you remove the battery lead or the starter wires.

Once the car is put in gear the neutral switch opens the circuit to the solenoid and it should stop turning.

I usually use the longest 3/8 extension bar I have with a 1/2" socket and slide it alongside the block from the front of the car, behind the engine mount until it contacts the nut and just remove. Leave one of the bottom bolts on the starter so that it does not cause the starter to drop while you are undoing it. A great job to do.

As Bill says, watch those knuckles.

Regards

Rick - West Australia
Do Y Blocks Downunder run upside down? Gravity Sucks!!

The plug wire holder can be pried up out of the way with a long screwdriver or flat bar.That will make access to the top bolt easier.It's also a big help if you remove the two bolts holding the drag link to the frame and drop the tie rod and drag link down out of the way.

 

Paul,

Boonville,MO

My guess is that the solenoid stuck and you revved it up with the starter engaged and broke the Bendix. If that's the case, you need a new solenoid and a starter with a Bendix. There is no easy way of changing starters other than previously mentioned. Lots of Y's ran around with only 2 bolts because the mechanic didn't fool with the hard to get to one once he had it out. When your Bendix breaks, you are just SOL. A standard can be pushed to a start with one or 2 friends. Guys with a Fordo always carried an old tire in the trunk to tie onto someones front bumper for a push. Fordos will start if you push them up to 30 in Neutral and then put them in drive.

Kenneth

Fredricksburg, Texas