guys, tomorrow morning we are gonna check the compression and distributor advance and timing.

while we have all the plugs out, i want to check the gap.

what is the recommended spark plug gap for these plugs ?

also, when i changed out the points last week, i measured .015 on the old points, and put that gap back with the new set.

what is the recommended points gap ? on my 1970 mustang i use to go with .018, or a match book cover,

thanks



leonard

Plug gap .032-.036.Points .017-.018.

  

thanks oldcarmark. heading over there right now for the compression check and the unhooking of the vacuum advance to see how she runs, if the rain hold off. i will report when i get back



leonard

ok guys, im over my edsel buddys house right now. here is what we found.

compression is at 150psi on 4 cylinders, one cylinder at 155 one ant 145, one at 140 and one at 130. how does that sound ? they seem to be right in the 150 range, with the lowest at 130.

checked all the spark plugs while they were out, and found most of them to be at .050 gap. i closed them all up to .035.

the plugs are motorcraft BSF 82C, and they seem to be burning hot. they have a burnt spot on them in one area. not sure if the heat range is correct for this engine ? could this also be a condition of running too lean ? need some help in this area.

ok on the timing. couldnt remember if i should check initial timing with the vacuum advance unhooked from the distributor ? we checked it hooked up and at idle, and the previous owner has a red aint mark on 6*, so im asummming the PO wanted it at 6*. well, at idle with vacuum advance hooked up it looks to be about 20*. car starts right up and idles well. im gona go out there now and see if unhooking the advance will get the initial lower than the 20* its running at with it hooked up.

ok, i now see that ted said between 8-14* with the vacuum unhooked. going out there now to unhook the vacuum line and see what we get.

just wanted your thoughts on the compression and the spark plug condition.

going for a test drive afterward. i will post the results.

leonard

You have pretty good #'s on compression.There should be no more than 10% difference between high and low so you are just out of that range.155-10%=140.Your lowest is 130.The plugs are correct# I believe.Regapping to specs or replacing with a new set and driving it should give a better idea of lean or rich.I think you will find it is OK.As you remembered the initial timing is set with line off and plugged.With full manifold vacuum applied timing will advance as you already noticed.I would experiment a little with the timing and try around 10-12 initial and see how it starts and drives.You might also check the valve lash for .019 clearance cold.A couple of tight valves can effect the compression #'s as the valves wont fully close if too tight clearance.You can set valves one cylinder at a time.Start at #1 at TDC and turn 1/4 turn of the damper and set next cylinder in firing order.15486372.Sounds like you are becomming a "Y Guy".

  

ok guys, here is what we found on the timing.



with the vacuum advance hooked up we got around 20* initial.

with the vacuum advance UNhooked we got 0*.



with the vacuum line unhooked from the distributor, and we slightly revved the engine up in nuteral, we were getting some slight backfire through the tail pipes, so we did not try and test drive it unhooked.



while test driving it slightly stumbles on take off from a dead stop, runs so smooth while accelerating up to speed, say 40-50 mph, but once at speed and trying to maintain that speed it still surges a little.



so, should we try and advance the timing to the get the required 8-14* initial with the vacuum line unhooked ?

like i said, right now with it hooked up it looks to be about 20* advanced at idle. the timing tab only goes form 0-10*, so im guessing its around 20* advanced because of the distance its showing up from the end of the timing tab. to me it seems if we do advance it to the 8-14* initial with the advance unhooked, it will then be 28-34* initial with the vacuum line hooked back up.



should the initial timing go from 0* unhooked to 20* vacuum line hooked up ?



i am not a fine tuner type guy thats for sure. i know how to change parts and know how they work, i just cant fine tune a car.



im heading out of the house now for a bit and will check back in later this afternoon.



thanks for all the help guys.



leonard

You'll get the hang of this pretty quick - this isn't a rocket you're building and those compression numbers are OK for an oldie. Your friend needs to invest in a set of valve cover gaskets - you'll need them before long.

Setting the plug gaps back was the right step - and that's on the road to recovery - but what did they look like at each position? Make a diagram or list if you would and number them out. The cylinders of the Ford / Edsel engine are numbered 1-2-3-4 front to rear on the passenger side and 5-6-7-8 on the driver side (front to rear). Make a note of the plug nose condition - compression figures from earlier, hole by hole, etc. It will give you all sorts of clues as you go.

When I dragged my bird home - I had four rich cylinders and four plugs lean burned - and the pattern matched their common cylinder feeds out of the intake manifold. The manifold is cast in what is known as a "cross-H" - so that as each successive cylinder fires, it is alternately taking the intake charge from one side of the carburetor and then the other. The four lean cylinders led me to a bad idle feed on one side of the carb - and the other side was set-up over-rich to accomodate it. If that's what you find  - we'll figure a way to help you through it.

The engine has three ignition advance settings / features.

(1) Initial Advance Setting - is at a low (warm), constant idle speed, checked with your light (clean off the marker and marks on the damper). The vacuum line to the vacuum pot should be disconnected and the opening in the carb sealed up to prevent a vacuum leak. Original factory setting for the Edsel could range from 0° to 6° - all of us have found that the upper end is better. When you have things humming - this can be judiciously raised to something like 10°-12° - but don't go there yet.

(2) Centrifugal Mechanical Advance - when you rev the engine and watch the timing marks indicated at the damper, they should rise smoothly with rpm. The engine has to have its spark "lead" automatically adjusted as rpm increases to start the fire in the cylinders at an ever increasing rate. If this isn't happening - you'll find the point plate has some holes in it - squirt some WD-40 down below there and see if you can get it to loosen up. Otherwise, the thing will need opened up, cleaned and lubricated for proper operation. Tests of the centrifugal advance are done with the vacuum line to the distributor disconnected and the carb port plugged as before. 

(3) Vacuum Advance - When the vacuum pot is hooked to manifold vacuum it advances up to a fixed maximum point as full vacuum is reached. Your tests have shown 20° - a reasonable stock performance at elevated vacuum (closed throttle idle). This feature is normally added to the engine to promote economy - and to an extent help reduce operating temperature - but the engine will run without it. Leave this alone for the moment - and get the other two systems to work right - just plug the open port at the carb - the 20° is fine when you need it later. 

Get these systems working - and you will be a long way toward a successful tune-up.  

 
 Steve Metzger       Tucson, Arizona

Nice description, Steve - well taught.

       A  L  A  N   F  R  A  K  E  S   ~  Tulsa, OK    

wow. thanks for the info oldcarmark, and agreenbird56, amazing.. how you guys know this stuff to the detail you do, really amazes me.



since the vacuum advance does seem to be working properly, we wills tart off with a new set of plugs and we will set the initial timing to 6* and start from there. as said, it is now at 0* initial with vacuum line unhooked and plugged.



hopefully we will get a chance to do this next weekend, and i will let you guys now what happens.



thanks again for all this valuable info. couldnt do this without your guy's help.



leonard

Have you checked the centrifugal advance?With the vacuum line unhooked (so the vacuumm  advance doesnt work) does the timing advance as you raise the RPM?