oldcarmark.

yes, i forgot to add that. when we unhooked the vacuum line, and raised the idle, revving the motor to about 2k rpm, yes, the timing did advance a little, not as much as it did when the line was connected.

i actually was surprised it did advance, and didnt think it would/should.

thanks man.



leonard

It should advance much more than a little.A minimum of  at least 20-30 by 3000 rpm.Should change steadily as  RPM increases.I have a  feeling either the weights under the plate are  stuck or the springs are broken or unhooked from weights.Centrifugal advance is independant of the vacuum advance.Vacuum advance moves the breaker plate.The centrifugal moves the cam.You may have to pull the dist and take off the braker plate(2 screws) and have a look at the setup under the breaker plate.Before you do that try turning the rotor by hand.It should turn slightly and then spring back.

  

wow. thanks oldcarmark.

im guessing it moved about 6* advanced when we revved the engine with the vacuum unhooked. so thats not enough you say. i think we are heading in the right direction.

when the vacuum line was hooked, it did seem to move a lot when we revved the engine.

im gonna tell my buddy if he wants to try the distributor, i will pull it and he can get it rebuilt, and i will pop it back in. if it were mine i would probably mess with it more, but i got my own classic to play with. LOL.



also, is there a way to put an electronic ignition distributor in the 292 ? if so, who makes them and how bad are they to hook up ?



i got an electronic distributor in my small block chevy in my 57 and love it.



leonard

Definitely sounds like the centrifugal is not working.You can buy a rebuilt for about $50.00 exchange.Before you buy one have a look at the one you have now.Take the  breaker plate off and check the weights and springs underneath.Electronic ignition-Pertronix 2 or Pertronix 3.VERY easy to install especially if the dist is out.2 screws and 2 wires to hook to the coil.Check Ebay for good prices.Rebuilt dist is a Cardone part#30-2808.Application 64 F100 with 292.I seem to recall Autozone had a good price for that.Mr. Gasket sells a spring kit for the Ford distributor. Part#925D.Gives a much quicker advance curve.About $5.00.Works great on mine.The other thought I had is this.The 55-56 distriutors are caled loadomatic because they are vacuum only advance.They dont work very well in the later motors.Is it possible someone has stuck an earlier distributor in this car?.They wont advance at all with the vacuum line off.There are several pics of the later distributor diassembled  on this site.Do a search using the "search" box at top of page.

  

Here is a graphical representation of the typical passenger car Centrifugal and Vacuum Advance Curves - taken from Ford literature in the mid-seventies - but relevant to most all Ford gas engines of "medium" performance.

Distributor RPM is 1/2 the RPM at the crankshaft - so you can see that the 6° additional centrifugal advance (you found when reving the engine) would occur at about 1400/1500 crank RPM. If you haven't got something like that, the internal mechanism is either "pretty stiff" or maybe has some god-awful heavy flyweight springs in there. Have you tried the WD-40 "soak-down" yet?

The 20° of vacuum advance you found, could occur (by this graph) with manifold vacuum levels of 10 - 15 inches of Mercury - so that value is reasonable.  

 
 Steve Metzger       Tucson, Arizona

wow. you guys are amazing.

will try some wd-40 first, then since its cheap enough will talk my buddy into a rebuilt distributor.

man, this info in amazing



leonard

guys, i found a rebuilt distributor at my local NAPA store for 72 bucks.
gonna tell my buddy to get one.
http://www.napaonline.com/Search/Detail.aspx?A=NRD482808_0130785601&An=599001+101960+50087+2087005#

is there anything special i need to know about swapping it on his 292 ? i have pulled tons of dizzys on small block chevys and some 70's small block fords. not sure if there are any surprises on the 292 ?

thanks.
leonard

Wow, I'm just trying to soak all of this knowledge up.  I'm loving this thread!

Sorry, nothing to add to the technical side of this discussion (I'm more of a question asker at this point in my mechanical career!!), but as a side note I would suggest this Mr. Edsel: you should definitely tell your buddy to get on this forum and if nothing else read thorugh all of the responses here as well.  Not so that you don't have to help him or so he feels the need to do things himself that are beyond his skill level, but if there's anything I've learned since getting into old cars it's this: it feels so much better to at least have an understanding of mechanics then to always have to rely on someone else.  Plus that way if he creates a sign-on, etc., he can come here and ask some questions so next time he hits you up for help he'll have a starting place for you!

I know all of my mechanic friends appreciate that! LOL

Granted, I suppose you have to enjoy learning this type of thing.

Anyway, keep all the good information flowing guys....I'm loving it!

So...I found NAPA part number NRD 482808 on their site - that looks to be the right one for this application. If you guys can find an old swap meet junker for trading stock, you might save some of the $33 core value so he can keep his original.

Before you put the new one in - you might find it convenient to have a look at the mechanical advance mechanism while it is out on the bench. The above photo shows the typical Ford flyweight arrangement used on the later distributors. It isn't too difficult to disassemble one down to this level. The pictured unit has two "total advance" limits to choose from....18L and 13L. When the base is engaged in the 18L slot - the distributor can provide 18° of advance (36° at the crank). When it is engaged with the 13L slot - 13° (26° crank). You would like to find it in the 13L slot and if not, its a good idea to put it there. To move one 180° you must remove the little retaining clip (located under the green grease in the picture), disconnect the springs, and lift the upper rotor shaft up to turn it. The little clip has two upward facing whiskers - they have to be spread not squeezed. There is a variation of this pictured rotor shaft that has a 15L and a 10L slot - if that is what you find, I'd say use the 10L. It could be opened to the same length as a 13L with a small rat-tail file - but that is getting ahead....

Here is why you want the limited distributor advance setting - the engine will only tolerate something like 36°-38° of total mechanical advance (that is the initial plus the distributor) under load (with low/no manifold vacuum). You want to put more initial on the bottom (10°-12°) without violating the upper limit. If you were to use the 18L slot - then the initial advance set point would have to be down at 0°-2°. When using the 13L slot, the initial can be 10°-12° (adding some nice low end torque) and not violate the advance limit as the engine gets into the higher rev's. 

Installing it - the lower end has a hex drive for the oil pump shaft. In some instances, where these shafts don't get a lot of engagement into the distributor - you have to be darn sure the new distirbutor is fully down into the engine well and engaged - or you'll soon be trying to start up with no oil pressure! Rotation is counterclockwise as seen from above.

 
 Steve Metzger       Tucson, Arizona

wow greenbird56, you amaze me with each of your posts. you know your stuff.

this is great info here for all you guys.

im gonna talk to him this weekend and hopefully he will spring for a new distributor.

thanks for the tips



leonard